INTRO / PRE-SHOW MESSAGE
TONY: Hey, everyone, this is Tony. Before we start today's conversation, I want to give you a quick heads up. At the very end of this episode, I'm going to share a piece of music that's very close to my heart—my newest hit song. If you've ever seen those four words on every coin and every dollar in the US, hearing them in a song gives them a whole new weight. So stick around to the very end. I can't wait for you to hear it.
Welcome back to the podcast. Now let me talk to you for a moment. As a leader, if you're running a company, you're making high-stakes decisions and you're carrying the weight of growth. You already know this. Being smart isn't the problem. You've done the research, you've hired good people. You understand your market and other people's markets. And yet progress sometimes slows. Execution drags. Teams hesitate. Decisions feel heavier than they should. What's going on?
It's not because you lack intelligence, but because at a certain level, guys, thinking harder doesn't create clarity. Ready for this? It creates friction.
You know, many leaders reach a point where their instincts are strong, but the systems around them aren't keeping pace. Whether they're expecting to have the answers or not, you know, there's a point where the real leverage lies in asking better questions, testing faster, and really getting out of your own way. And that's what today's conversation is all about.
It's about why some founders and executives scale faster by doing less, not more. That's right. You heard it—by doing less, not more. We're going to talk about why letting go of the need to be the smartest person in the room often unlocks better teams, cleaner execution, and faster results. And this is why many of the rules that you were taught May no longer apply at this stage of leadership.
My guest today is someone who's built companies by challenging those assumptions head on. He believes that being smart is overrated, and he backs that up with real-world execution, not just theory. He helps leaders test ideas without burning time or capital, build teams that outperform them, and rethink what actually drives momentum at scale.
Guys, if you're navigating complexity, growth, or transition right now, listen closely. This conversation isn't about learning more. It's about unlearning what's slowing you down. Think about that. We're going to speak with Safeer, who's going to tell us all about it. Let's dive in.

INTERVIEW – PART 1 (THE ENTREPRENEURIAL JOURNEY)
TONY: Hi, Safeer. Welcome to the Tony D'Urso Show.
SAFEER: Hey, Tony. How are you?
TONY: I'm doing great. This is quite a topic near and dear to my heart as well as others. How to scale, how to grow. I cannot tell you how many people I've met in my life, unfortunately, that think that they're the smartest people in the world. And we have them. But is that really the best or not? We're going to find out. I want to learn about founders who think that less often can build more. It's quite the concept because you think you need more, you need more, but building less.
In order to properly frame this, I didn't give your full name or your background yet. Can you tell us how did it all start for you, Safeer? What's your backstory?
SAFEER: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, as you know, my name is Safeer Qureshi. I've built several businesses, ran some of them into the ground as well. I started my first business when I was fourteen. I was in high school, and I was asking my parents, like, "Hey, everybody's getting a job. Can I get a job?" Right? And, you know, being the son of Pakistani immigrant parents, they were like, "Are you crazy? You need to focus on your studies."
I saw my dad starting a business, and I was like, "Okay, well, can I start a business?" And they're like, "Yeah, fine, go ahead. As long as you just focus on your studies." So I started doing graphic design because, you know, the school had Adobe Photoshop and it was free. So I started off with that graphic design firm. I always wanted to do video production, so slowly grew that into a video production firm, which turned into a film and TV production firm.
It took off and I said, "Wow, I am the best businessman ever. I am so smart. I know how to make hundreds of thousands of dollars, potentially millions. Why don't I just start giving money to all my friends with ideas and watch them grow?" And that obviously didn't work out. They ran them into the ground. And so I thought, "Okay, I can't have a four percent success rate." Right? So I started looking at different things and I said, "Okay, this industry doesn't work, this works, that industry doesn't work, that works."
And that didn't work either. To a certain extent it did, and to a certain extent it didn't. Some industries were easier for me because I had more experience in similar industries or same industries. But eventually I found out that it was not just the industries or the companies—it was the people and the systems. And that's where I kind of started. Or I guess that's like the story of the journey.
TONY: Interesting, interesting. We're going to find out more about that, because you've built a number of companies and have a very good success rate. We didn't talk about that yet. But for the audience here listening, we're going to cover that. And one of the things that I want to cover, which right off at the beginning that I talked about in the intro as well, you're saying being smart is overrated. And people are thinking, no, you got to be smarter. You got to use AI, you got to do this. You know, there's this whole school of thought there, but you think—you say it's a myth.
SAFEER: Well, a lot of people are too busy trying to be smart and trying to sound sophisticated, right? It's like when you hire a marketing company, they start using stuff like LTV and ROAS and, you know, the customer acquisition cost and all of this, and you're thinking, "Wait, hold on,  hold on. This is all getting too complicated." And it is.
You know, I think that one of the rules that I have is you have to simplify and be as stupid as possible until I can completely understand the process. I try to break it down and I go, "Try to explain to me as if I am stupid." Sometimes I just say, "Look man, I'm really dumb, right?" And I'll believe it. "I don't understand anything. Break it down for me." And try to understand if I'm pretending to understand what's going on. That's just me. Like, you know, yeah, sure, people talk about, you know, you can fake it till you make it, but you can't just fake it because then you don't control the conversation. Right? You need to understand.
Whether it's you going to a mechanic—you come out and a mechanic just says, "Yeah, you need blinker fluid." You know nothing about cars. You go, "Okay. Yeah, sure. I'll just go ahead."
So I think the real thing is, it's not that you shouldn't be smart. I just think that sounding smart and, you know, trying to just overcomplicate things, it's just a little bit overrated. You have to simplify and understand. And I think too many entrepreneurs, because a lot of them, especially founders, they come from industries that they want to, you know, start up in. Right. So they come with a specific set of knowledge and they hold that to be, you know, the source of truth. And a lot of times I say there is no source of truth because the industry might be doing things a certain way. It's not just you. It might be the entire industry, but another industry might be doing something different that you can bring in and change entire industries.
So if you think you're too smart and you know, and this is always how it has to be done, like just take a look at Blockbuster, man. They were too smart for their own good. They had millions in research and said, "No, no, no, this Netflix Company isn't going to do well." Well, there you go. Good case in point.
TONY: And again, this is Safeer Qureshi. Pardon me if I didn't say it correctly. Talking about how smart is overrated, guys, and why founders who think less often build more. And you're going to find out more about him at CodeStackCapital.com. Code is C-O-D-E, Stack Capital.com.

INTERVIEW – PART 2 (SIMPLIFYING TO SCALE)
TONY: So there's so much I'm thinking about this, and I'm going to really dive deep into this and attack it from different angles. Now when we get proposals, for example, that's a really good case in point here. When we get proposals or whatever level we are, we're entrepreneurs, we're founders, we get proposals and it can look really—choose a bad word—stupid or dumb on paper. And you're like, "Oh man, what are you giving this to me?" And yet if you follow through on it, as you mentioned, with some of these, it can really wind up working. So you talked about Blockbuster and I'm trying to understand—I'm not even sure of the exact question to ask. I'm just trying to better understand why can it not look good but work? Maybe that's the question.
SAFEER: Well, okay, I always say this, right. Sales is your business. Your business is sales, right. And it's also customer service, right? So if you can understand and grasp those two things really, really well, you're going to understand—you're just going to be successful. That's it. End of conversation. Right. If you understand how to do sales, the hardest part of any business is sales. People might say, "Oh no, it's product production. It's this, it's that, whatever." No, it's sales. And like, I've seen it happen over and over again. If you can get that part down, then you've got it.
And how do you get it down? You dumb it down. How do I get my first dollar in? Right. And then you can worry about profit, revenue, all of that. That's great. But how do you get your first dollar in?
There are lots of dumb ideas that seem dumb on paper, and a lot of them might seem dumb because of the experience that you've had. But once you actually start looking into it, the reason behind it, what it might be, then it works. There's a reason that a lot of companies that mimic Apple aren't as successful as Apple when they think they're following their process, when they think they're following everything that they're doing step by step. There's a reason they're not. Right. Apple understands the fundamental of what makes them successful.
And so you actually need to understand the fundamentals of how business works. So once you actually get that down—sure, there's how the industry works. But how does business work? And to me at least, my goal is to always try and create capital as fast as possible, try to bring in money as fast as possible. So when you look at that, you know, that's a pretty straightforward answer. You already know it. You can watch all the podcasts, listen to all the podcasts, watch all the YouTube videos, but you know how to bring in that capital. Yes, we can talk about marketing and complicating, but it's like, okay, what's my product? Who's going to use it? How do I sell to them? Right?
And so to answer your question, there are a lot of dumb ideas that work really, really well. Whether it's a trend like fidget spinners—those guys figured out how to sell, how to get that first dollar in as fast as possible, right? Or whether it's a company like Apple, it all really comes down to, you know, how do I get my first dollar in, how fast, and how much can I scale this in what way?
So if you understand that, any dumb—air quotes—dumb idea will become smart, and you'll start to see it right away. Can this scale? Has it been scaled? Has it been done in this industry before? No. Okay. Has it been done in another industry before? Probably. How did they do it? How can I bring it to my company and my industry? And that's how you can actually determine if an idea is dumb or viable, or it's going to be successful.

SPONSOR BREAK – SCALER
TONY: Let me pause here for a moment. One of the themes that keeps coming up in this conversation is how often leaders confuse complexity with intelligence. The more data we have, the more tools we add, the more dashboards we build, the harder it sometimes becomes to actually see what's going on. Most founders don't need more information. They need clarity. They need answers without chasing five people, exporting spreadsheets, or reconciling systems that were never designed to talk to each other. And that's where today's conversation naturally leads. If you've ever felt that friction inside your own business, this next message is going to hit home.
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And now back to this great conversation with Safeer.

INTERVIEW – PART 3 (THE INTELLIGENCE PARADOX)
TONY: Safeer, not to argue with you, but what you've just said, my point of view is a very smart thing to say. It's not very stupid. Plus, I can use AI and say, "What industry has done this and who's done this?" I'll make it up. "Who's done podcasting? Who's done it successfully, and how did they do it and how did they get sales?" And I now have intelligence that I can now use to model or replicate for my stuff. So I hear the words you're saying, but my mind is going towards we need to be smarter, and we have tools that can give us more intelligence and help us be smarter. Yet I'm still grasping with this "less is more" sort of idea.
SAFEER: Well, look, what I just said to you was very simple. It was less, right. I dumbed it down and I broke it down into just a couple of minutes. Right. But now let's start putting these systems together. Let's go to GoHighLevel and start putting all the—yes, there are tools that will actually help you, but a lot of people get way too lost in those tools, those metrics. Now all of a sudden they're starting to become smarter, and they're starting to look at metrics, and a lot of people will—success is rare, right?
So a lot of people look at, "Okay, what did this company do? They were successful." They'll copy it and they'll focus very much on the metrics, and they'll focus too much on what the smart thing to do is. What I've actually done is a very simple, dumbed-down version of what most people will do, right? Most people will go down. They'll start looking at how to run ads, what to do, and they're going to start overcomplicating over and over and over again rather than just break it down and go, "This is what works. I tried this. Let's try a little bit of this. It didn't work. Let's try a little bit of this. It didn't work. Let's try a little bit of this. It worked. Let's do more of this. Okay. It stopped working. Let's try something else while this is working." Right.
So that's a very simplistic way of looking at it. It's a very dumb way of looking at it. And if you first look at that, I'm not saying don't be smart. I'm just saying that don't be smart first. Don't try to be oversmart. Don't try to outsmart yourself from success. Don't be too smart because then you can actually blind yourself from success.
TONY: Safeer, I didn't accurately or fully give your track history. You've built multiple companies very successfully. You're running multiple companies right now, very successfully, which is why I've invited you on the show. You're tremendous success. Can you give us an overview summary so that the audience understands? You're just not some guy that just left an AI session. You've been out there on the streets kicking the tires and so forth and building businesses. Tell us a little bit more about your success on this.
SAFEER: Well, my success has been based off the systems that I've built and the people that I've kept around. And I think, to be very honest, it's a very simplistic—again, I keep using the word simplistic because it really is. If you have good people around you that can help you build good systems, and they're good at their job, a lot of them will probably be smarter than you in certain areas, you're going to be successful. That's just what it is.
Right now, I'm part of twenty-six companies, moving on to twenty-seven, and they range—it's not all like software. It goes from media production. And we have a company based out of Silicon Valley that builds software, and we partner up, you know, CodeStack Capital funds those, DataFluent builds them. And we essentially partner up with very, very smart people, smart entrepreneurs.
One of the reasons that, you know, CodeStack Capital and DataFluent has been successful is because the people that we work with—I work with very smart entrepreneurs in their fields. I get them to break things down and dumb things down for me. I ask them, "Where's the gap? How can we make money using your knowledge and your expertise and my resources?" And that's what kind of makes me successful.
We've done stuff in the aviation industry, in the insurance industry, in the automotive industry. And the way that we've done it, at least my way of success is I find somebody that I've been working with or friends with or somebody that we've met, they've been kind of successful in their field, in their company, and maybe they've been in it for about five, six years. They've made a few million dollars. And they say, "I see this gap and I would be the first customer." And they're not just like, "Oh, I have an idea." A lot of those guys have it down to the T. "Here's the problem. Here's my solution. Here's what I need to build. And I promise you it will sell."
And then we go down. We do market testing and we essentially build that company. And another thing is—again, I want to get to cash first. Everybody wants a unicorn. I want a billion dollar company, Tony. But how do we get money first, fast?
TONY: And now that makes very, very good sense. It's quite a lot of companies that you've helped and that you've grown. It's really quite the story here and a very, very diverse as you've said. And you've done it all on this premise of using their intelligence, what they know, and adding to it. So two dumb people make somebody smart, I guess.
SAFEER: Well, look, I work with people that are a lot smarter than I am. And then I ask them to dumb it down for me because I'm not super smart, right? So I go, "Look, can we talk about it in a way that I can understand? Okay, well, what if we tried this here because we tried this in this specific industry or in this company? What if we tried this? Do you think this will work?" And we basically bring two people together—one of them very intelligent with experience in the industry, the other one who might not be as intelligent but still has the resources and the experience in building things. And then we go ahead and build things.
Now, one of my close friends and business partners, Witte, he's from the aviation industry. He flies a 757 for United out of Denver. And when he came to me with this idea where he was like, "Oh, I want to create this, like, connection app and this, like, social media app for people that are aircrew, for pilots on their layover." And at first I was like, "What are you talking about?" As soon as I hear the word like social media, I'm like, "I'm out." Like, it's like hearing like crypto or AI. Its like, "Oh, I gotta be very careful." My ears go up, right?
So I started talking to him more, and I realized he's a very intelligent individual. And he had it planned out not only how we're going to build this thing, but also what we're going to do to make it successful. And we've been running it and it's been pretty good. So even though on the surface it seemed like maybe it's not the best idea, once we actually did some research and actually looked into it and looked into the systems, it turned out to be way better than we expected.

INTERVIEW – PART 4 (VALIDATION & TESTING)
TONY: I'm thinking with this, and I'm thinking when you do something like that, even though it sounds good in your mind or even on paper, without throwing a ton of money and a lot of trial and error, how can you validate that it's actually going to work and be the model you want to put a lot more resources into?
SAFEER: Well, you have to use the most—like the biggest resource, probably the scarcest resource you probably have as well, depending on who you are. And you have to, if you are going to invest in something, you have to use a resource that everybody has, but not everybody utilizes in the best way—time. You actually have to put time into it. You have to go down and listen to people that are actually going to be customers, not just somebody who had an idea. Right. So you actually have to talk to multiple people about, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this."
And people love—especially businessmen, entrepreneurs. They love talking about solutions that could potentially be in their industry. Right. If you're an entrepreneur, you've probably cold-called, you've probably door-knocked. You've one hundred percent been rejected. You don't mind talking to people and spending a little bit of your time.
I am a part of twenty-six, moving on to twenty-seven companies. I still—every company that we actually invest in, I spend time talking to potential customers. And Tony, you're not going to believe the amount of times where they've helped us come up with features that we didn't even think of, that my business partner was, "Oh yeah, this would be amazing. Oh yeah, this would be, you know, really, really helpful for the industry." And that specific feature will sometimes be the selling point. It will be the unique selling proposition of that company or of that software. It's absolutely amazing.
TONY: You know, we're entrepreneurs, we're business people in the audience, and we have built whatever we've built or it's been handed to us or however it's worked out, and we have our protocols and what we should be doing. But you—one of the things you do is you break rules or push the boundaries of what other founders are afraid to even challenge. Tell us about how that all comes into play.
SAFEER: I think most entrepreneurs are rule breakers, right? They're on their way to create their own path. And that's no disrespect to lawyers or doctors or engineers or people who went to university. Like, it takes a lot to become a doctor, a lot to become a lawyer, right? But at the end of the day, it's like, hey, you follow this, here's a roadmap, and you're going to be successful. There is no roadmap to business. Yes, there are MBAs. Yes, there—but when you actually get a beating in the market, that's when you realize that's your roadmap, right? It's like throwing somebody into a boxing ring with just gloves on and be like, "Hey, figure it out."
So I think most entrepreneurs are rule breakers, but a lot of them will actually conform to certain rules, whether it's within the industry, whether it's, you know, in their mind or it's their process. And the best way that I like to look at it is, does it have to be done this way? Is there a better way to do this? Doesn't matter what it is. Is there a better way to do this? And a lot of times that requires rule breaking and that requires, "This is how it's always been done. And this is why." "Well, why does this feature have to be here?" "Well, this is—okay. Can we just merge it into this?" "Oh, yeah. We didn't think of that. I mean, I guess technically we can do it like this." "Well, why hasn't anybody done it like this?"
There are so many times where we'll come up with something that's so simple. And the question we ask ourselves is like, "Why hasn't anybody else done it?" "Oh, that's just not how we do it in the industry."
So I always challenge people to look for rules or look for areas where certain things have been done a certain way and ask yourself, "Can I improve this process?" And, you know, sometimes it's these little things that can be as simple as I have to click two buttons, but you simplify it by clicking one button. And a lot of people will just prefer that. So, you know, always be fixing things and making them better. And that really does require a little bit of rule breaking, sometimes a lot of rule breaking.

INTERVIEW – PART 5 (HIRING SMARTER PEOPLE)
TONY: Very interesting. Now, I've come from three decades in corporate America, working for others. And my takeaway—things could be different today. But my takeaway is the founders, the CEOs unequivocally think they're the smartest. They know the best. They built a company. Come on. They built it from their blood, sweat, and tears. So there's some ego in there. There's some pride in there. And they generally don't like—in my experience—don't like to be told that they don't know their business or they don't know it well enough.
And if you talk to them about hiring people that are smarter than them, first you're going to hit that ego. You're going to get that, "Wait, I'm the one that built the company. I'm paying you to help me grow it, not to tell me—you're not being paid the big bucks to tell me that I don't know my business. You're standing here in this building because I built it from scratch."
So you get that—it's a little juxtaposition on all of this. So you want to get people that are smart, that can help you, but yet you don't want to affect that core of what's built the company. I'm just kind of thinking with this because this is a really great point. Can you help figure out how do leaders actually do this? How should they do it?

SPONSOR BREAK – SHOPIFY
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And now back to this great conversation with Safeer.

SAFEER: A lot of corporate America, you know, when it comes to certain CEOs, they've been doing certain things in such a long way. You know, they have that curse of knowledge that they forget sometimes the simple task or that they they don't understand that things can be changed or things can change over time. But I think a lot of people, even though they don't like to admit it, they understand that there are people that are—I'm not saying just hire somebody smarter than you overall, but sometimes, actually, a lot of times you have to find somebody that knows more about you in a specific thing that you understand is important.
So if I don't understand accounting, okay, I'm not going to hire an accountant that knows just as much as I do in accounting. So whether they like to admit it or not, they've hired an accountant that's smarter than them in accounting because that's his job, specializes in that job. So when they look at it from that, when you look at it from that angle, I'm going to hire a marketing team that does, you know, marketing, but I'm not going to tell them how to do their job. I'll keep an eye on them. I'll try to understand. I'll try to dumb it down for myself. But I'm not going to keep an eye on them and micromanage them. Otherwise, these guys wouldn't be where they are, whether they like to admit it or not, whether it's their egos, whether it's just them not realizing it. But a lot of times you have to do that.
And, you know, it's not saying like, just hire somebody and let them do whatever they want. You have to dumb it down for yourself, understand it. But I think without me having to say, this is what they should do, I think a lot of them already understand. They just don't know how to frame it. Right. So if I'm hiring a marketing company and I'm saying, "Oh, yeah, I just—they know as much as I do, and I just don't have the time to do it. That's why they're doing it for me." You're ultimately going to fail. It's just going to fail.
But if you know everything that's going on in every part of your company and it's grown to a corporate, you know, level, something is wrong. Like something—you either don't know what you're talking about or you are at ten percent of the potential where you can actually be. You're at the ten percent potential and you are stopping yourself from growth. You're not taking input from people that may have a lot more experience, may have some creativity to add, and they're doing this every single day. If somebody is doing something every single day, they're specialized in that. I guarantee you they have more knowledge on that topic than you do where you're trying to manage sales, books, customer service, marketing, and being a CEO.
TONY: Very interesting. Well, they don't want to lose control. But the one thing—and I saw this a little bit, not that I saw it a lot and it could be more, I don't know, I haven't worked a job in a while. But when you hire people and they look good on paper and they look good in terms of what they've done and resources, you know, this person is a good fit and they sound really smart and intelligent. They can be very smart and intelligent. But as time goes on, there's this disconnect between really making the company go and them doing their thing. It's like, oh, you—plus added to that, the person you've hired just goes to the best AI out there and says, "How do you do this?" "Oh, you do this. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." "Okay, good. I'm done. I'm out of here."
And you get these—and I started to see this way before AI, you know, which we didn't have way back in the day, but I started seeing where the person comes across very smart, intelligent, puts the work together, but it doesn't do a darn thing in growing the company. It doesn't make you ten more cents, but it looks good. It smiles, it moves, it does whatever. But it's not connected. So I'm not quite sure. But I'm just trying to think of this balance between bringing in smart people. But if they're too smart, can they stop things or not grow the company? But they look good. You know where I'm going with this.
SAFEER: Yeah, I know. We've had a few of those in our companies. So first of all, I'll give you a little secret, okay? Take a real-life process that you've already solved during an interview and ask them that and how they would fix it throughout the interview.
First of all, I want to say one thing. AI is not a bad thing if they're utilizing AI to improve their processes, whatever it may be. It's not a bad thing, but they must actually be experts. Not just sound smart, but they must actually be experts. How do you know if somebody's an expert? Well, you bring them in, you ask them. They're all sounding smart. They're using all the lingo. And then you say, "That's great. Now break it down for me. Break it down for me as if I'm five years old. I don't understand." Right.
If you ask, for example, a carpenter, "Hey, how do you build a table?" They're going to break it down for you. We had an electrician at our home the other day. He wouldn't let me leave his side. I'm like, "Dude, I'm working." He goes, "No, no, no, let me explain to you how—" He was so passionate about his work and I didn't want to know. But now I understand. It's the difference between a dimmer switch and a regular switch and a three-way switch and why it's important. But, you know, he was very passionate about his job. And I'm not just saying that you should—don't hire people like, you know, if they don't do that. But if they can break it down for you and actually break it down in a way that you can understand.
And the way that you do it is you ask them questions about stuff that you've already solved and see how they would do it. "Is this the right way to do it?" "Well, this is the way we did it." "Oh damn. If we did it this way, could we have done it a better way?" Right. So that's how you actually get somebody to understand, or you get somebody and you understand if they're just sounding smart or they're actually an expert in what you're hiring them for. And once you get that, okay, great, go ahead, use AI. But use your intellect to actually make it unique to our company and actually solve problems that we're going to have or that we know we're going to face.

INTERVIEW – PART 6 (SYSTEMS & ADAPTATION)
TONY: Very interesting. I like that. And when you're working with companies, when you're scaling, do you find people are trained that you have to unteach them on certain things in order to grow their companies? You're coming in as an expert, you're part of the company now, you're invested in it, and you have a lot of experience and resources that you bring to the table. What are you finding out there that you go, "Oh, we got to sort this part out," aside from the fact of dumbing things down so you can understand. So everything is maybe simple to understand.
SAFEER: Well, two things. One, you have to have a really good system, right? You have to have a proven system that works for a company, and you have to train them on that and everything else. You know, they can unlearn if this system—what it is, what works for you. Now I'm going to say something that's kind of contradictory to that, which is don't be afraid to learn from them and unlearn part of your system if they can improve the system. Don't be afraid to listen to their suggestions and try it out.
So there's lots of things that you can unlearn. One of the things that I had to unlearn, and that a lot of entrepreneurs unlearn, is I got to build this perfect system in order for me to be able to sell it. And I just know what the market wants. No, build it, create an MVP just enough that it works because your customers are going to complain regardless because they're not you. Right. We've built so many different products where it's like, we didn't even know it could be used this way. We created a CRM system and somebody was using the—like, it's a traveling CRM system where you can, you know, for door knockers and insurance companies and people who do stuff like solar, you know, pest control and all of that. And there's a guy who's just using it to mark all the bourbon stores and using features in ways that we never thought it would.
So it's like, don't be afraid to learn from them. But, you know, because ultimately it will help you improve. And if it doesn't, then, you know, you just learn what not to do. That's totally okay.
TONY: You know, with companies, it almost seems like there's two parts to it. And, you know, there's the product or service. It's a product or a service that's been built and created by a founder or has a very great idea. You know, a case in point, your pilot that has this great app. So it's something that, you know, is really needed in the market. That's really good. So you've got a product or service that you're then going to develop. And it's just really getting the issues, the problems with that sorted out and the best people to get that out. It's something that's not going to be too expensive or it's sustainable. In other words, you're not every year forever spending more than you're making. So you've got that.
But then the other part of it is the world changes. And that's where, you know, it changes. And that's where I think we need smart people, because it changes so fast that, you know, these names—Pepsi, Chevrolet, AT&T, Mercedes-Benz, Ford, Toyota, you know, these names. Every single person hearing this knows those names. Yeah, Tony, we've heard them all the time. But these are companies that have reinvented and re-added. They just didn't keep doing the same thing.
So there's kind of two parts to it. One is keep your products and services going, as I seem to understand. But the other is as the world changes. You know, when I grew up, there was a bicycle that was everywhere. It was ubiquitous. Everybody, everybody, everybody had a Schwinn bike. Everybody, everybody, everybody. And then it just disappeared. And you never heard about it again. And then all of a sudden they've made a comeback, and now they're in the mountain bikes or whatever, and they're all over and they're huge again, because they have to reinvent themselves and they just don't stop at their core.
I spoke with the person who took Starbucks from twenty-eight stores to fifteen thousand, and he came up with—he and his team worked out the Frappuccino. They had to redevelop and create something. They just didn't say, "No, we're just going to do our coffee and that's it." There was this add-on. So it's almost like to grow, you have to add this section or part of the company that almost acts like a startup that finds something new because the world keeps changing. So that seems to be part of it. And I think that that is part of why you want to bring on smart people, because you don't know everything that's going to happen. Who knows what's going to happen next week? Another trade embargo, another country being raided? We don't know. But yet we still have to sell our products and services.
SAFEER: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely one hundred percent. And like I said, look, a lot of these smart people are doing things that can be very easily dumbed down. For example, you can have a very, very good marketing firm. They could, you know, do A/B testing and run different campaigns and all of that. And that's great, but it's as simple as if it's not working, do something different until it does. Once it does, do more of it, you know. It's a very complicated process that we just dumbed down. But you're right, you do have to work with smart people in order for you to be successful.

PRE-INTERVIEW CONTINUATION MESSAGE
TONY: Before we continue, I just want to take a moment to thank you for being here. Thank you. Your time and attention truly matter to me, and I appreciate you choosing to spend part of your day with The Tony D'Urso Show. If today's conversation is giving you something to think about, I invite you to follow the show and share it with someone who might benefit. That simple act helps these discussions reach more entrepreneurs and leaders who care about building something meaningful.
And if you're not already receiving my Elite Entrepreneurs newsletter, you're welcome to join us a couple times a month. I share insights from conversations like this, along with practical ideas you can apply on your own journey. It's free, thoughtful, and designed to help you move forward with clarity and purpose. You'll find it at TonyDUrso.com. And if you'd like to explore another creative side of what I do, you can hear my music anytime at TonyDUrso.com/Music.
All right, let's continue.

INTERVIEW – PART 7 (VALIDATION & PROFIT)
TONY: Do you think somewhere along the line that—and I talk about this because I talk about you mentioned the roadmap and I developed something called the Vision Map because you need that as a business person or an entrepreneur to know where you're going. You just don't go and take off somewhere. You don't take a vacation without knowing or having any kind of map or phone to direct you how to get there. You just don't. It's like unheard of. So you need a map in business. And one of the points that I bring up when I do talks and stuff is if you have a new product and you're developing it, most products, not all, not one hundred percent, but there has to be a point where you make a dollar or you make something or you know, this is workable. This is going to be—there has to be a point, usually within a couple of months, like, you know, within like ninety days, you've got to know that it's proven and it's going to make it.
But even today, even that seems to be too much. But again, it depends on the product where you have to get to a point where you know this is going to go. Let's invest more resources. And I want to understand where that point is from your point of view, where you go, "This is the product is good. People are buying it or maybe not buying it, or people say they want it," where at this point you go, "Okay, great. We can really—let's put some fuel on this."
SAFEER: Yeah, it's as simple as don't wait until the product is built to ask people if they're going to use it or need it. Start from when you have the idea. "Hey, would you use this? Would you use this?" Let's just say, I don't know. You created something that works for, you know, ranches and you're like, "Hey, this fence or whatever is the best fence fastener in the world, and I know they're going to use it." You go to one hundred people, they're like, "Why? You're innovating for no reason, right? What we have is good enough." Okay, great. Now you haven't invested the resources. You haven't invested—you know whether it's going to work or not.
But it could be as simple as, you know, everybody saying, "Damn, I'd buy this right away," and you're going to start seeing interest right away. But the mistake that people make is once they get that initial validation, they stop. You have to be validating from the inception of the idea to the creation of the product and beyond. Right? People start listening to their customers after they've made the product, and then they're like, "Oh, wait a second, these guys aren't even our customers." Or like, "Yeah, somebody said like, oh yeah, this is a great idea," but they're not even in the industry, right?
So you have to keep validating. And, you know, you're saying you should have a plan. Yes. Yes, absolutely. But the plan is going to change a thousand times just like that. Your product is going to have multiple iterations. And so when you go ahead and start consistently staying in the market and asking people, you know, we're talking about my friend with the pilot, he is so type A—like he's the complete opposite of me. But the one thing he's really, really good at is consistently asking people for feedback constantly. And he's always on top of it. And I'm not just talking about, "Oh, we have this idea"—we were going to trade shows before the app was built. We were talking to pilots and flight attendants and aircrew and even people that, you know, have had this idea before, but they've never acted on it. And just asking people like, "Would you use this? How would you use this? What do you think?" Etc., etc.
So to answer your question, it should be all the time. That point that you know, "When should I validate my idea?" As soon as you think of it.
TONY: I like that market research. Do people even want your product or service? And there are people that will say, "Yeah, it's a great idea," but would they buy it? Would they use it? It's a matter of researching and drilling down on it. And for those that are listening to us, are there things—I mean, we've talked a couple different things here, a couple different points. Is there something people should just kind of like, wait, take pause and focus on something else instead? What do you think people should be doing right now in the business and entrepreneurial world?
SAFEER: I mean, there are so many things, Tony. There are so many things that people should be doing and they aren't. There are so many different points of failure, but I think too many people are focused on the product and not enough on their customers or potential customers and their profit. Right. So let's focus on the customers first. Right. They say the customer is always right. Maybe, I don't know, sometimes. Uh, but the market will tell you. And I think if people are more focused on their customers and more focused on the process of not just validating the product initially and then focusing really hard on selling it, but focused on where's the money coming from? Right. We've all heard it before. Follow the money. Where's it coming from? Who's giving it up? Where?
You know, so if you just do that and you focus on that, you're gonna be fine. Focus on the customer. The customer service. Why? Like, why would anybody even want to give you their money? Are they excited about it or is this the right target market? Is this the right—what matters to this customer? How do I not just get them, but how do I keep them? And focus more on the customer. Focus more on why. If you know some people are buying a lot of a certain thing from you, why are they—like, why are they purchasing it? Right? How do I get more of this?
So I think the reality of it is, you know, there's that. And then a lot of people more recently, you know, I think this is a tale as old as time. But a lot of people, they focus very hard on revenue and not enough on profit. And I've seen that some of the entrepreneurs that I work with focus on that. And they're just like, "Yeah, like, what do you take home?" "I take this much as a salary." "Okay. What's left over?" Well, it turns out they're in debt and they've made like five million dollars that year. So focus hard on the customer and the money and then you'll be fine. Again, it comes down to sales and customer service.
TONY: True. And while you were saying this, you made me think of something like way back in the day. So it's your fault. When I was doing fast food and we had this big sign there, you know, "Customer's always right." And it was like, "These are just words." You don't understand these words. And then one day someone comes back and says, "I didn't—you didn't put some French fries that she ordered in her bag," but I know I remembered—you're a kid. Your memory is superior back then, right? I remember. Manager didn't care, took a bag of fries, put it in the bag, gave it to her. She was happy. And guess what? She kept coming back. She kept coming back. She kept coming back. It took me a while to understand. "The customer is always right." I'm not trying to start a trend with that or not, but I will say whether the customer is right or not, the market's always right. The market will tell you if your product is viable or not.
SAFEER: The market will tell you. Yes, your customer will tell you too. Sure. Customers will. You know, there's many different ways we can talk for days on customer service and what the right thing and what’s the wrong thing and what does you do when you know the customer is lying or, you know. But the truth is the market's always right. So if you just focus on what the market's telling you and how it's telling it to you, you're going to figure it out.

INTERVIEW – PART 8 (AI & THE FUTURE)
TONY: I like that a lot. And last question, kind of little freefall here. I want to get your point of view on AI and our reliance on it for all the companies. You help a great number of companies—twenty, twenty-seven by the time this airs. What's your take on AI? How much does it help? How much should we use it? Just what's your take on this whole thing?
SAFEER: Wow. Um, that's a good question. So I don't think AI is a bad thing. I think AI is a tool, right? You can use it right, you can use it wrong. I think it is going to make people a lot more diligent. You know, like back in the day, even now we look at like, how are our older grandparents getting scammed by these Indian phone calls and the call centers and all of that? Like, I don't understand how—we're going to have that with AI. We're all going to—they're going to dupe us when we're older, right? They're going to take advantage of us. But there's also going to be lots of good stuff happening. There's going to be lots of crazy innovation, lots of things that are going to make our life easier.
You know, back in the day, we used to have to ride a horse. Now we've got planes. It's not a bad thing. You have to be malleable and you have to make sure that you change with it. Right? If you are resisting it the way that some people resisted the internet, you're going to get wiped out. But I don't think it's something that we need to resist. I think it's something that we need to learn, understand, and dumb down for us.
Like, I've had AI dumbed down for me as much as possible. So that way I can understand it. And once you have that, whether it's AI, whether it's a complicated process, whatever it may be, once you have it simplified and understood, it becomes less scary. And now you start thinking, "How can I use this to my advantage?"

OUTRO
TONY: I'm very, very good. Once again, this is Safeer Qureshi. We talked about smart is overrated and why founders who think less often build more. You can find him at CodeStackCapital.com. Wow, what a lot of good advice from someone who's in there in the trenches right now. I just want to thank you so much for coming on the show and talking to us about this. Thank you. I really appreciated this.
SAFEER: Hey, no problem, Tony. And again, if there are any entrepreneurs, I'd love to have conversations. I love to see what they're doing, where they are in their business, how we can collaborate. You can reach out to me on LinkedIn—Safeer Qureshi. Um, you can also reach out at CodeStackCapital.com. You can also reach out to me on Instagram. Its SafeerSnaps, S-A-F-E-E-R, S-N-A-P-S. I look forward to hearing from you guys and thank you so much, Tony, for having me on the show.
TONY: Sounds good, sounds good. I want to just thank you so much, Safeer. And to our audience here, if you like this, share this with your friends. Tell them about Safeer and tell them what he's been through, what he's accomplished. He's in there with a lot of companies to help them really grow big and very, very successful. So he knows his stuff. So definitely always follow and listen to people that have been through there and can share that experience with you.
And wherever you're getting this, guys, please follow the show. It helps to bring in more amazing guests to you. All right. Let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success. Thanks. Remember, just take action. Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. So good seeds, do good deeds. And I'll see you on the next episode.


CLOSING SONG – IN GOD WE TRUST
TONY: And before we close today's episode, I want to share something special with you. Something I mentioned at the start of the show. This is my brand new song inspired by four powerful words printed on every US coin and every dollar. You've seen these words your entire life, but when you hear them as a song, they carry a whole new meaning. It's called "In God We Trust." Here it is.
[SONG LYRICS]

Walking by a bus stop
not even a book
Feeling everything is just plain old stuck
a dime on the ground, I held it to the light
what it said restored my sight
In God we trust, the words shine true
Guiding my steps in all I do
Through trials and storms I find my place
In God we trust, amazing grace
Yeah, yeah
I took the next bus, though my pocket had no fare
I told the driver my life with a humble prayer
He gave a smile and said, "Go on, son"
I knew then that my hope had begun
In God we trust, the words shined through
Guiding my steps and all I do
Through trials and storms I find my place
In God we trust, amazing grace
Oh
I found a diner with a crowd at the door
and asked the kind lady if I could do more
She smiled and said, "You can stay if you try"
With a dime in my hand, I whispered on high
When the road feels heavy and hope runs thin
That coin reminds me where faith begins
One small coin, yeah, the truth so wide
In God we trust forever, my guide
In God we trust, the words I drew
guiding my steps and all I do
through trials and storms I find my place
In God we trust, amazing grace
Forever we sing
In God we trust
forever we sing
In God we trust
TONY: And that is "In God We Trust," the song that truly came to me as a gift from God. I hope you enjoy it and I'd love to hear your feedback. Thank you for listening and thank you for spending this time with me today. I hope this episode and this song gives you something meaningful to take with you. And by the way, this song is part of my very first album which is now out. If you want to hear more of the new music, visit TonyDUrso.com/Music. That's TonyDUrso.com/Music.