INTRO / PRE-SHOW MESSAGE
TONY: Hey, everyone, this is Tony. Before we start today's conversation, I want to give you a quick heads up. At the second break, I'm sharing a special insider's brief called Stock Market Ping Pong. It's a short, practical look at why so many people feel stuck trusting the market and a different way to think about growing money without all the chaos. You'll want to stay tuned for that.
Welcome back to the podcast. Now, if you're a driven entrepreneur, which I know you are, this episode is really going to hit home, guys. You know, most leaders, they spend years mastering the outer game—the strategy, growth, decisions, pressure. But very few ever stop long enough to understand the inner game that drives all of it. And that's where, as you know, your biggest breakthroughs usually come from.
My guest today, Gino Wickman, he's spent decades helping entrepreneurs transform not just their companies, but the way they operate as people, as human beings. He built the EOS system, which is used by hundreds of thousands of leaders around the world today. And now he's turned his attention to something deeper—the habits and disciplines that create clarity, calm, and long-term impact.
Gino believes we're all balls of energy, and he's right. But some burn out, some get brighter, and some never tap their full potential. Guys, the difference isn't tactics. It's that inner foundation that we build every day.
Today, Gino is going to walk us through the core of his newest work, the Ten Disciplines—simple, powerful practices that help people think clearer, lead better, and live with more intention. If you want more space, more focus, and a stronger way to show up as a leader, stay with us. This conversation is going to change how you operate. Let's dive in.


INTERVIEW – PART 1 (THE ENTREPRENEURIAL JOURNEY)
TONY: Hi, Gino. Welcome to the Tony D'Urso Show.
GINO: Thank you, Tony. Thrilled to be here, my brother.
TONY: It's good to have you on. This is the second time you've been on. You came on a few years ago, which was a conversation that just never wanted to end. We had so much to talk about in such a short amount of time, and I have a feeling we're going to do that again, because this time we're going to talk about the entrepreneurial inner power that I mentioned. We're going to help people learn how to master—is that a good way to say it—to master that inner game that fuels that success out here?
GINO: Great word.
TONY: So let's start here. Let's kind of start with how did it all begin for you, Gino? Tell us about your early entrepreneurial years. How did it all start for you?
GINO: Yeah. Well, I'll go way back and keep it fast because it started back at six, seven, eight, nine, ten years old with all kinds of scrappy things. Paper routes, shoveling snow, selling candy, selling fireworks—actually, that was a little older in middle school, totally inappropriate. But I was an entrepreneur in the making, is the point.
That led me to a very unconventional set of steps, leading me to helping hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs. You'd think I was a Harvard MBA and I went to a big consulting firm, and then I settled on my own. Well, it's not that at all. I barely graduated high school with a solid 2.3 GPA. I went to work in a machine shop. I just wanted to go to work. I either was going to go in the military or into a machine shop and get my ass kicked for a couple of years just to straighten me out because I was a wild child.
And then I set off to pursue my entrepreneurial endeavors, found myself in the real estate industry, found myself investing, and ultimately ended up taking over the family business. I found myself in the family business—real estate sales training company. My dad's an incredible entrepreneur, a great speaker, Hall of Fame speaker, built an amazing sales training company that unfortunately, when I took it over, it was in dire need of a turnaround, but I felt I could save it.
And so I turned the business around in three years, ran it for seven years. We successfully sold it. And then I just found my calling, which is helping entrepreneurs. I simply helped my entrepreneur father turn his company around and grow it and get it very healthy and very profitable. And I had a light bulb moment, and that's why I am here. And so then I set out after that to help entrepreneurs, and I've been doing that ever since thirty-two years old. So for the last, what's it been now, twenty-six years, that led me to creating EOS, and then ultimately eight more books selling three million copies, all focused on helping entrepreneurs. And so that's the fast story.
TONY: Wow, what a rocket ride. And I'm going to add a couple things in there. You're known for Entrepreneurial Leap, Rocket Fuel, EOS, EOS Life. And now what we're going to talk about is the Ten Disciplines. And I'm curious before we go into them, Gino, is there a thread that connects them all? What is that line that goes through all of these businesses and enterprises that you've put together?
GINO: Yeah, it's a great question. And so I call it the five pieces of content. So I'll explain what you just shared there in a little bit different fashion. And so if you think about those five pieces of content that you just mentioned, the first is Entrepreneurial Leap, as you said, and that's a book I wrote to help any entrepreneur in the making or early stage entrepreneur really confirm whether or not this game is for them, show them a glimpse of the life, and give them a path for how to achieve their dreams as an entrepreneur.
Second piece of content is called Rocket Fuel for when that visionary entrepreneur—I like to call them visionaries—when it's time for them to grow to the next level and find their integrator counterpart. Every great visionary needs to be matched with a great integrator to run the day-to-day of the business. And that book is all about how to do that.
The third piece of content is EOS in the book Traction. And that's for when that entrepreneur and their leadership team really want to build a great organization.
Fourth piece of content is the EOS Life. And that's for when those leaders want to live their ideal life doing what they love with people they love, making a huge impact, making lots of money, and having time for other passions.
And then the fifth piece of content is where we're going to spend most of our time today, and that's called Shine. A book I wrote called Shine, and that's ten disciplines and three discoveries to help you maximize your energy, your impact, and your inner peace.
And so the through line in all of that, if you look at what I just laid out, that's the entrepreneurial climb. And so it's like literally climbing a mountain from the inception of scratching your head as an entrepreneur, should you do this, all the way to getting to the top of the mountain and ringing the bell, whatever that is—selling the business, you know, achieving that thing you wanted.
Well, what I've learned now, and I experienced it myself firsthand, is when you get to the top of the mountain, it's not all it's cracked up to be in terms of feeling fulfilled in that sense of satisfaction. We get there and we feel empty. It didn't fill the hole we thought it was going to fill. And so that's what that content is about. But the point is, that's the mountain. That's the climb. And that through line is helping that entrepreneur at every level, master being a great entrepreneur and then ultimately mastering their inner world as a driven entrepreneur, but also all those driven leaders.
And so my dream, while Shine is the fifth piece of content at the top of the mountain, I'm trying to move it to the first piece of content before the entrepreneur climbs the mountain so that they can find that inner peace early, because we tend to accomplish all that on a foundation of angst and pain and trauma. And so there's hopefully the answer to your question, but I really wanted to create that context, because then we can point to the content as we have our conversation.
TONY: I love that you answered my next question, but I'm going to ask it anyway because it's a good question, Gino. I'm just being silly. It's an important question because the question is, with all of these enterprises and products and books, here I am. I'm a new, I'm a somewhat new entrepreneur. Okay. I've been in business for a few years. I'm listening to Gino and Tony and I'm thinking, do I need to take these classes? Do I need to read all these books? Does this latest book have what I want? And you've kind of answered at the very end saying the Shine book helps bring it—bridges. That's probably a good word. It bridges people into what they need to operate at a higher level. So if they start at Shine, that's good. That's where we want people to start today if they haven't been introduced to any of your other works.
GINO: Yeah. And it's the million dollar question that I hope to answer in the next twenty years. Okay. And that is, you know, we driven people—because Shine is written for all driven people. It's just my specialty is entrepreneurs. I get them, I am one, I speak the language, but it's any driven person. And so with a driven person, you know, it's a question of is our drive driven by our trauma? You know, that stuff inside. And if we heal that and we find inner peace, is it going to zap us of the drive? Well, I've learned now in experience, it's not true at all. Your drive actually increases.
So if we get to the front of the process and help people with this content, with Shine, before their journey, is it going to zap them of their drive? But it's not true. But that's the fear. So the good news is, whichever approach you take, if it scares you to look inside, that's okay. Start the climb and at some point you're going to get pinged. So that's why I just like to point that out with Shine. Shine is going to show up somewhere on your journey. In worst case scenario, if you go slay all the dragons for the next twenty years and build an empire and sell your business for fifty million dollars and then decide to look inside—amen, hallelujah. That's kind of what I did at age fifty. That isn't such a bad story at the end of the day. I'm just trying to help you start as early as possible by pinging your soul as early as I can.
TONY: Okay, so that makes perfect sense. So what we're talking about now is a great place to start. If you haven't started anywhere, this is the important stuff. This will help bridge that gap and take you to where you want to be, to that higher level of success, to the pinnacle of your industry, which is absolutely perfect and for everyone. This is Gino Wickman. We're talking about that entrepreneurial inner power. Another way to say it is master the inner game that fuels outer success. And you can find him and learn about his book at TheTenDisciplines.com. And ten is 1-0. So spell it numerically. So TheTenDisciplines.com. So check that out and learn more about that. But we're going to go through this a little bit.


SPONSOR BREAK – ODOO
TONY: What Gino is really pointing to here is something most entrepreneurs don't slow down long enough to examine. We spend years optimizing the outer world—systems, growth, results—without paying attention to what's driving us underneath it all. And when decisions are made from pressure instead of clarity, the cost shows up quietly in focus, energy, and sometimes even the business itself. Strong operations matter, but only when they support clear thinking instead of adding more noise. That idea of reducing friction and simplifying what you manage every day is a perfect transition into our sponsor today.
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And now back to this great conversation with Gino.


INTERVIEW – PART 2 (CHALLENGES AT EVERY LEVEL)
TONY: And I know that I just asked that question just before and I'm thinking of, okay, entrepreneurs, do they have challenges? I guess, how do I say it? Because we're talking about bridging and at every level. And this is probably a difficult question to ask because at every level of somebody's business, they need something different to get to. Your first one hundred thousand is something totally different than to get to your first seven digits, to get to your eight digits. It's a whole different thing. So there's different challenges. And I'm wondering for our audience, which is diverse, we also have corporate level execs listening as well. And I want to kind of encapsulate this and not just summarize, maybe summarize it, I guess. I think of the ratchet, maybe that's a good way where sometimes you're out of sync and then eventually you get into the right sync on it. And I think that that's what we're going to find ourselves when we go through this process with you.
GINO: Well, I, you know, I'm trying to understand the question. I think I understand it, but when you talk about these entrepreneurs at different levels, that's the beauty of the five pieces of content in the climb, because no matter where you are on the climb, the content's going to meet you where you are. And so if you're sitting there and you're twenty-six years old and you think you're an entrepreneur and you're scratching your head, please go read Entrepreneurial Leap. It's going to tell you if you are. Or if you just started a business and you're getting your ass kicked, as we all do in the startup phase, read Entrepreneurial Leap just as quickly as if you have thirty-five employees. You've got a great little three million dollar company and it's growing well, and you've got a decent little leadership team—Traction. And I could keep going.
But the point is, the content's going to meet you wherever you are. And just like I said with Shine, if something in today's conversation, let's pretend you're that twenty-six year old, hasn't started the business yet, but something about this conversation pings you that you might want to look inside and really work on the inner game, then maybe that's the place to start and then read Entrepreneurial Leap and take your leap. So somewhere on that journey, you're going to get pinged with the desire to look inside. That's the one that's pretty flexible, and I'm just trying to move that one to the front of the process. Like I said, worst case, do that one last.
TONY: I totally—and I haven't read your book. So, um, what is that, a disclaimer here? I haven't read it, so I'm not a master on it. You're the master. But I think back on my entrepreneurial journey, I've done multiple things, but the last was being a podcaster. I think it's now like eleven years I've been doing this, and having that inner strength—I still work on today—to improve myself and be more confident, not arrogant, but more confident at what I'm doing as the right thing. Otherwise, you wouldn't grow any business if you weren't confident. If you had no confidence at all, you'd be doing different things all the time. And for probably a portion of my life, I've tried different things because I didn't have that confidence that it was the thing for me.
So one of the things I see, and you know, not having read your material, is that wherever you are, you need that inner strength, you need that power, that confidence up, whatever strength it is, whether it's low, medium, or high, you need to grow that because that's how that strength—while other people see it—it's what's going to carry you through to a successful business.
GINO: Yeah. And I, you know, I'll share a couple of things because it's—I'm going to answer this contextually and respond to what you said there, just to give a little dimension on what you're saying, because confidence is a really interesting word that you're choosing. Because in Entrepreneurial Leap, that first piece of content, what I'm teaching that entrepreneur in the making, or that early stage entrepreneur, is that it takes six essential traits to succeed as an entrepreneur—visionary, passionate, problem solver, driven, responsible, risk taker. And you and I discussed that in that podcast four years ago. So go back and look at that.
But the point in that is, entrepreneurs—I mean, we're borderline crazy. And those six essential traits, if you think about them, they add up to being this ball of energy that's borderline crazy. And so we take huge risks and not always huge risks, but we take more risks than most. And sometimes that risk taking is perceived as confidence. And sometimes it's craziness, and sometimes it's actually insecurity disguised as confidence because we're trying to fill a hole, you know, we're trying to prove our dad wrong or our friend wrong. And sometimes we're doing it for some reason that is not entirely healthy. But we come to learn and go to the root of that someday.
So confidence is, you know, maybe courage is a better word than confidence, because most of the entrepreneurs I know are insecure, and it is part of what drives them. And that's part of what we're talking about here in this fifth piece of content, Shine, is to go to the insecurity, find that source of fuel from the insecurity, and shift it to an even more powerful source that makes you even more driven. So hopefully that made sense.
TONY: It does. It makes great sense. And your answer was absolutely amazing. And one point on that, which is a comment to what I was just saying, is the way I see it is that there's a level of confidence and that inner strength, but still not arrogance. And I'm going to explain that really fast. You're willing to allow—come on, guys, the world changes tomorrow. Something different is going to happen. And if you know about it and if you jump in, you could be a millionaire by Saturday. I mean, it's just that fast.
I have had the distinction, if you want to use that word—those words are not, you know, I've been in corporate, what I call the corporate world, working for others for thirty years. And I've been an entrepreneur for thirty years, and I've been through the people who have started their company and built it. They're not just confident. They were so arrogant that they wouldn't accept anything new and their company disappeared. Or who knows what happened to it, because there's that level. So I think there's a balance, and I want to bring that up because the topic, the point on this is that some things can be misunderstood by entrepreneurs, and I don't—and I wanted to make that a very good point. You can't be too confident where you're not willing to listen to changes, but you've got to be confident enough to take your point—to take your business through.
And I know that it's somewhere in your material you talk about, there's a point where entrepreneurs just misunderstand and they don't truly get it where they're at. And I'm wondering, is that kind of that point? Or maybe that's a separate point, but when I read about through your material, that's what I thought of.
GINO: Yeah. And the only point I would say to that, because I think I, you know, answered most of that. The next piece I would just say is the ability to be agile. So the thing you have to understand as an entrepreneur, and most do, or at least they're forced to, and that is the need to be flexible. Bob, weave, and change your product or service overnight because the game changed on you. And so I describe that as the understanding. And I talk about it in great detail in Entrepreneurial Leap—how you've got to have plan B, C, and D in place or be ready to change. You know, the popular term is pivot. I'm not a big fan of that word, but it is what it is. It's just called a course correction.
And so I would describe that as the flexibility and the risk taking and the creativity involved. And when the game changes on you, you know, when the competition catches up, when the industry changes, you've got to be able to turn on a dime. And if you don't have those essential traits, you're just not going to survive that. And so certainly the word confidence can fit into that. And yes, arrogance is the kiss of death. We're going to talk about the ten disciplines. Discipline number ten is be humble—the antithesis of arrogance. So you're singing my song, brother.
TONY: Oh, I love it. All right. We've, I think, possibly been teasing the audience up to this point because we've been talking about that inner world, that strength, that not being arrogant. We've been talking inner, inner, inner. So let's just kind of lay it out there. You know, there's this outer world. There's this inner world. Can we kind of separate the difference? Because I'm not even going to answer the rest of my question. You're nodding. You know where I'm going.
GINO: Yeah, I think we all get it. So outer world, inner world. Let's start with the outer world because that's the easiest one to understand. So outer world is everything outside of you that you've created. It's the package that you've created in life. And so outer world success, the business you built, the house that you have, the family that you have, the money you have, the way you live your life, you're taking vacation. So it's just that whole outer world package that you've created. And most of us successful entrepreneurs have a pretty damn good looking outer world. Okay.
And so that was me at age fifty. I had sold the business, and two years later, fifty-two years old, I'm sitting there celebrating my success and my outer world, which I didn't call it that at the time. This is what led to me writing Shine. What happened was, as I was sitting there celebrating my success and kind of celebrating making it to the top of the mountain, something hit me. Something came over me. I call it the universal two-by-four hit me over the head, and I can only describe it as an awakening. And just something welled up inside of me and said, it's time to now look inside at the inner world.
And when I looked at the inner world, all I felt was pain. And that journey—it's now been six years. That journey forced me to look back at the root of all of the pain. And it started at age six and it lasted all the way to age fifteen. Trauma, abuse, bullying. We don't have to go into all the detail, but I'm happy to get—I get very specific in the book. But what I realize is how my ego created a beautiful package, this suit of armor, to protect me from ever feeling pain again. And I built this tough guy persona—hardworking, ass-kicking. And so at age fifteen to fifty, thirty-five years, it served me very well in creating an amazing outer world. But never did I go inside and address what was going on in the inner world.
And so then I went on a journey for the last six years to go into the inner world and heal all of that, confront all of that, let all of that come up, and we're going to get into more detail on that when we get into the three discoveries, that part of Shine. But the inner world is what's really going on on the inside of you. So there you are out there, the listener. You've got this beautiful outer world. Hopefully. Some people's outer worlds are really messed up, and so you've got to work on the outer world there. But the inner world is how are things feeling on the inside? Are the tectonic plates shifting? How's your nervous system? Are you full of angst? Is there anger in there? Is there pain? Is there trauma?
And most of us driven people, it's all built on a foundation of angst. And so I went in there and I did some serious excavating, and now I feel peace most of the time. It's not perfect. I'm on a journey here, but I feel peace most of the time. And it is night and day. And at the end of that whole journey, I now realize same gifts, same guy, same talents, but now built on a foundation of peace, not a foundation of angst. And it is a whole different world and it literally increases your drive.
TONY: That's absolutely amazing.

SPONSOR BREAK – STOCK MARKET PING PONG
TONY: Are you playing Stock Market Ping Pong? I think you should. Here's a special insider's brief on why better planning is needed for you to bridge your retirement expectations. The background is this—many put their retirement trust in the stock market, which can be confusing, chaotic, and costly. Been there, done that. But it doesn't have to be that way.
Stock Market Ping Pong was created solely to make free money, a simple and repeatable game to make the power of the market accessible to all. To tell us more about it is financial expert Will Cooper, aka Doc Holliday. Hi Doc, welcome to the show.
DOC: Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
TONY: Doc, let's start at the top so we can kind of get this understood here. First of all, how is retirement different today than it was for the previous generation?
DOC: You know, that's a fantastic question. And for me, I get quite a window gap. So I have older parents—my father is hitting his eighties, and I'm in my early forties. So, you know, in his generation, he was able to go to college, buy his house, have children, pay all his things, bought a brand new home for fourteen thousand dollars, and worked his way through college and raising a family.
For myself, by the time I'm here, my generation raising kids, going to college, doing those same things, it requires one hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of student loan debt, a few credit cards, an eight hundred dollars a month payment on an automobile, insurance, etc. The next thing you know, the same opportunity was there for my father is not there for me, just due simply to inflation and the decreased value of our dollar over time.
So for people in today's world, if we're not investing and trying to help our money grow, then we're losing strictly to inflation alone. Not because of bad spending habits, not because you weren't saving or didn't put away for your 401(k). You didn't have enough money growing to outpace inflation. And so today's generation are going into retirement. They've done all the great things, and here they are. They're sitting down with their financial planners like, well, maybe I need to work two more years. It's just not quite ready. We need to do these things.
Now you've got in-laws that maybe having to move in because of health things, and all these great plans and great degrees are starting to stack up, and you're like, man, I thought I was there and now retirement's a few more years out of reach. And so what I've found in the last couple of years is there's a great deal of people out there that are trying—they're flipping homes, they're doing side hustles. They're finding ways to try to bridge that gap. They're aware that it's there, and they're putting their efforts where they can. And many of them don't even realize that what we do exists and that they can start learning this as simple as an hour a day, a couple times a week, and start helping bridge that gap for retirement can be a year away, two years away, not a decade away.
TONY: I know what you mean. I watch videos, you know, people doing various things all over the world, and something that they don't plan to show me or they weren't trying to show me. But I see older people that look in their seventies, eighties, or nineties, and they're working jobs as cashiers or clerks or security or whatever, and I'm thinking they should not be working at that age. They should be home enjoying their life. But I see it where I am when I travel, you know, I see it in my city everywhere, and it's just something I really would love to see. Something about this may or may not help some people. Can you tell us about Stock Market Ping Pong so it helps the people you just described?
DOC: Greatly. Um, some of the greatest joys I receive from coaching is watching that generation that are in their sixties and 70s, what I call teaching an old dog new tricks. You know, how to turn the smartphone into smart money. You thought it was nice to be able to text with the grandkids. Now you can FaceTime and you can do a few things with your smartphone now. But not like we can teach you how to make money with it.
And I've got a seventy-year-old student in the desert right now in Nevada that's sitting there making six hundred or one thousand dollars a day while still working his job that he was having to work for his career path in his seventies. Um, but because of what he's doing now, by the end of the summer, he'll be retired and doing this.
So what Stock Market Ping Pong is, is the simplest approach to the stock market. You can go to Google, YouTube, and infinite search platforms to research the market, and it'll send you down all kinds of rabbit holes, just like if you wanted to go find how to make the perfect brownie recipe—you could spend days looking at recipes. On the end, we took the market and wanted to make it Forrest Gump simple. Buy low, sell high. Go where the money is, do just like grandpa said.
And so over the last decade of working the market and thousands of hours of studying, we've been able to identify certain points that are repeatable every day. Not just sometimes, not just on occasion. And so now we're able to teach students we don't have thousands of hours to go match the market, how to master a couple, two or three repeatable trades. So now they can sit down on their lunch break and say, oh, I saw that double bottom and I bought it. Doc, thank you for the free money. I just made forty percent. Oh look, there was a bounce, a trend. I saw support, so I took that trade. Thank you for the free money.
And so we were literally—it's like learning a foreign language. You came in here, you got your ABCs, and I'm going to give you some flashcards. And at first we're talking apple, ball, cat, dog. But by the end of the series, I'm barely sliding that shuffled deck of cards up and you see what looks like a leaf and you're yelling Apple! And I'll be darned if the apple doesn't precede itself. Same with the market. I'll show you a couple little things. You'll see what looks like a leaf. Here comes the apple and there's your profit to receive because you studied the flashcard.
We've figured out how to make it simple and repeatable for anybody from eighteen to eighty. And right now we're teaching students across six countries. So the excitement behind it is that it's a forty billion dollar a day river. We could have one hundred thousand students making ten thousand dollars a day, and the Wall Street giant still wouldn't even know we were playing the game. So to teach you how to make a thousand dollars—not to discredit anybody's wealth or standards of living—but in the world of Wall Street is nothing. Okay. That's what they tipped the door hop. So we came in here and said, hey, wait a minute. I've been working so hard to make a thousand dollars a week, and these guys are throwing it around like tip money. Come in, buy the double bottom. Say thank you for the free money. We should have learned this in sixth grade. We'd have never made it to eighth grade. Go live your life. Go spend it with your family. Quit working, whether you're twenty or eighty. It's time to quit working.
That's what this world is. We have all this technology, all these computers, all these devices, and we've got a forty billion dollar a day river moving every day in six hours. And we're just missing it because we're too busy. But wait, you've got your 401(k). I'm in the market. I'm invested. And you didn't even know that your financial advisor is taking his most conservative approach, making twenty percent on your money, giving you your eight percent return, and you just missed a fifty percent move on the stock—seven stocks that are moving every day.
So it's really about an ecosystem of encouragement that anybody can learn it that's willing to learn something new, and then support, and then the basic fundamentals, the video series that's going to allow anybody on their time, day or night, sit down, learn a new skill, and change your life.
TONY: Doc, I don't know what seniors rely on for income these days. We talked about, you know, they could be clerks or working in stores or in shops or whatnot, doing part-time work. The one thing that comes to my mind is some may be playing with real estate or not, or trying to get some residuals going, or try to buy and flip homes, which is risky in a learning process in itself. Now, compared to this, this sounds like to me—there's a higher learning curve. It takes quite a bit to learn this sort of thing.
DOC: And that would be most people's misconception because of the market and the way people traditionally approach teaching the market. So with what we do, fortunately, the learning curve—beyond your tuition to sign up for the class, which is going to be less than your cup of coffee a day—you can come in and start learning and change your life. And in the training process, you're going to pay per trade. We do not give the market money. The market will pay us. So you're going to practice till proficiency. So all through your training, you will be paper trading. So you will not be risking any of your capital, and you will not begin to live trade until you're comfortably entering and executing those trades in the training process.
So by the time an individual—so let's just say that in comparison, you went to a seminar, you learned how to flip homes. You found one on the auction block. You went and bought a house. You're ready to go now. You're going to go flip it. Got your contractors, got a buy, sell, real estate. Here we go. So the gentleman that went and did that's got weeks or months into flipping their first home, minimum.
The individual that comes over here, sits down, spends a cup of coffee a day to start learning something—inside ninety days has spent not another dollar to do anything unless they have gained the confidence to start actually generating income with that money. And at which point, most of our students start with as little as one thousand dollars in their trading account, an average of upwards of five thousand. And in the program, five thousand dollar roadmap to five hundred thousand over ninety days with taking two simple, repeatable trades, twenty trades a day.
Um, and so for anybody that's going out there and looking at side houses, they're signing up for these seminars that want to start selling other products and wellness and healthcare, and starting into all the different ways to create extra income. I would argue that this is not only one of the safest paths to explore new incomes, because there is no additional expense beyond the training. And then secondly, it has the greatest reward possible, meaning that I have a lady right now who lost her job due to the DOGE government cutoffs here a few months back, had five thousand dollars to trade with, and at the end of three months is now making five figures a day. Okay.
And so the ability to continue to grow is limitless. Making one thousand dollars a day is very simple. Using that same skill to go to ten thousand dollars to one hundred thousand dollars a day is very scalable. I have two students that make over six figures a day, every single day. Um, I have many new students that are making three to five hundred a day that are just starting. So the range is all over the map, but there is no limit. If you'd like to learn to make six figures a day, the same thing you're going to learn from day one will carry on to your finished career.
So what we're going to do is we're going to come in real simple, take a basic trade with one contract, and a success on that trade, you're going to make eighty bucks. If that trade fails, you're going to lose twenty dollars. All right. You're going to continue to take that trade consistently until you're making eighty dollars every time. Then as a week or two goes on, we simply add ten contracts. And now that's an eight hundred dollar trade. The same trade you've been taking is now paying eight hundred. Three weeks later, that same eighty dollar trade is now an eight thousand dollar trade. We just added one more zero and take the same trade every day. So crawl, walk, run, let it build, and this can continue on for as long as you need. Build the wealth you desire. Then we go learn how to invest into dividend stocks and into your real estate, into some crypto. Get mailbox money and real retirement.
TONY: You know, that sounds like something very interesting for some people to look into, see if it's for them, see if that can work. The risk of losing twenty bucks doesn't sound too bad to me. And if I get very comfortable with that, I get it. It makes great sense. Uh, for those that are interested, go to StockMarketPingPong.com. StockMarketPingPong.com. I'll have that in the show notes and description. Doc, I want to thank you so much for jumping on. It sounds really good. And for those that really want to learn this and get into it, it sounds like you've got it all set up. I've looked through your modules and stuff, and I think it's very interesting, and I hope we can help some people with it. Thank you so much.
DOC: Thank you so much for having me.
TONY: And now back to this great conversation with Gino.

INTERVIEW – PART 3 (BALLS OF ENERGY)
TONY: And now part of that, I think it is a good time to talk about balls of energy. Let's go talk about it. Sometimes they burn bright or burn out or never even turn on.
GINO: Yeah. So this is a very strong belief I have. It's also scientifically proven. But we are all balls of energy. We are scientifically energy. We are particles turned into atoms. Atoms turned into molecules. Molecules turned into cells, and cells turned into human beings. So that's all energy. Particles are energy. So we are energy beings. In other words, as hard as that is to believe, because you can touch and feel and see us, we are balls of energy, and some of us burn very bright and some of us don't burn very bright.
And so I've been saying it for twenty years. You're all balls of energy to me. We are truly these balls of energy, and the ones that do burn bright are living from the inside out. And the ones that don't burn so bright are living from the outside in. And so inside out means you're operating from your true self. You could call that soul, spirit, heart. Whatever word works for you. Outside in is where the ego is in charge and running the show. And again, that's that package that I created way back when. That's the suit of armor. The ego is so masterful at creating a suit of armor and is just trying to protect you.
And so with that said, that internal inside out, let's call that true self again. You choose your word. That is a ball of energy that burns so bright. Every single one of us, eight and a half billion. Our true self burns bright inside. But unfortunately, if it's wrapped in a cocoon ten feet thick that your ego created to protect you, you're just not burning as bright as you can because your energy is just blocked. It's blocked from shining.
And this work, this content, this book Shine is all about piercing that shield. I call it letting a little light in or a little light out. And so that is my interpretation of how we are balls of energy and some burn bright and some don't burn so bright.
TONY: I love that. Now I understand a little bit more of what the book Shine is all about. And yes, we are very powerful spiritual beings. We're powerful if we know we're powerful, otherwise we don't necessarily know. So I really like that concept. I think that's absolutely amazing. Let the light out. I guess if you're Italian, it's let the light out for sure versus let the—open up to let more light in. I'm trying to make a silly about it. Maybe it works, maybe it didn't. But anyway, I really like that we're balls of—we're very powerful.
GINO: Yeah, we are all meant to shine. We are light. We are. Yes, we are all meant to shine. And it's a matter of shedding all the shit so that we can shine.
TONY: Now, as part of that, maybe, maybe not. Because another concept in your book, and you're going to bring up, we're going to go over a couple of them. But one of the things is, and I think entrepreneurs, business people, everyone has learned this. You can get more done with the team than yourself because, in other words, so two or three or four or five of you are far stronger and get far more done than just one. And your disciplines, I believe the way you describe and discuss them is by doing more, you're exponentially more powerful. Can you kind of break that down a little bit for us?
GINO: Yeah. Well, let me, I'll zoom way out and give context on this. Okay. And so the ten disciplines—the ten disciplines for maximizing your energy, your impact, and your inner peace—and each one stands on its own. But if you implement them all in your life, they have a magnifying effect that I believe is like a hundred X return. So again, it's a smorgasbord. So you can just use one, and it's absolutely true that you will get value from it. I just urge everyone to implement them all because of the magnifying effect.
And so I'll just quickly roll through all ten so your audience knows what they are. So we're not teasing them out in any way. And it'll just take me 30 seconds. But discipline number one is ten year thinking. Number two is take time off. Number three, know thyself. Number four, be still. Number five, know your one hundred percent. That's your work capacity. Number six. Say no often. Number seven, don't do twenty-five dollar an hour work if you want to make six figures. Number eight, prepare every night. Number nine, put everything in one place. And number ten, be humble.
TONY: I'm thinking with those, and you want to know what comes through my mind?
GINO: Please.
TONY: As with anything, you can't do all at once. You've got to focus on something. So what's going to give me the most bang for the buck? The most powerful? What can I make the biggest difference with by focusing on?
GINO: Yeah, I love the question. It is not the first time it's been asked, and it's like, it's so hard to answer because it's Sophie's Choice. Because the one that seems so simple, put everything in one place, and the one that seems so audacious, know thyself, are both just as powerful. But if I have to pick one, it's always know thyself. Because this is kind of everything we're talking about in this conversation. To the degree you know yourself, really know yourself, everything in life is better.
And so I always tell a story of my wife threw me a thirtieth surprise birthday party, and I walk into my in-laws' house and there are a hundred sets of eyeballs that yell surprise! And I look around that room and there are six factions of my life in the same room. They were my business partners, my employees, my family, my wife's family, my high school friends, and my new friends. Six different factions. And I was a different person with every single faction. I looked around the room and I said, who in the hell am I going to be today? Well, that was my aha moment that for the rest of my life, I'm just going to be me because I don't want to be a chameleon anymore.
So the point here is, to the degree you really know who you are, it starts with understanding your skills and abilities, then strengths and weaknesses, then kind of your persona, and then really getting into the stuff around your ego and who your true self really is. And so we're all somewhere on this journey, and it could be as simple as a profiling tool to understand your personality better, all the way to a year of therapy every week, to really go inside and clear and excavate all that stuff that's blocking you from being your true self.
So depending on where you are on your journey in life, you just keep chipping away that marble and exposing the beautiful masterpiece statue that is you. So if I have to pick one, it's got to be know thyself. Because every time you chip away a piece of marble, life gets a little better. You get a little clearer. You make better decisions, you set better boundaries, and you're just a better person. So that would be the one that I would pick.
TONY: I've got a question after this, but is like, can you give us a little bit more on the importance of this is one of the ten. And you feel this is a critical point to make sure you have know thyself. What is it? What does that mean to me? I'm running around. I'm busy. I got stuff to do. I'm listening to Tony and Gino talking. Know thyself. What? Can you give me a little bit more?
GINO: Well, yeah. For sure. And what I'm going to do is I'll bring another discipline into this because this is that magnifying effect. And so if you'll incorporate ten year thinking into your life. And when we talk about know thyself just right now, set a goal for yourself that ten years from now you will fully know thyself. Okay? Because at thirty years old, I had no clue who I was. You know, I knew some external stuff, but. So start by setting a ten year goal. Because if you're sitting there listening to this and you think by Wednesday of next week you're going to know yourself, you are grossly mistaken.
So yes, I'll give you a little bit deeper dive, but start by just taking all the pressure off yourself and just say ten years from now I'm going to have accomplished what Gino just said. So here's a couple little snippets, okay? And so let's pretend you are at ground zero, step one in knowing thyself, and you are a trauma-laden ego machine. Okay. And I'm just going to like go to the worst case scenario. And the protective layer you built is one hundred feet thick and it's made out of solid steel. And you got to bring that whole thing down. And that's the chipping away at the marble I'm talking about.
Well, right now it might be as simple as, like I said, just go take a profiling tool so you understand your personality or your strengths or weaknesses a little bit better. And you start to learn about yourself. Because like somebody who's arrogant, let's use that example that you mentioned earlier that doesn't know they're arrogant. They are leaving a black trail behind them, so they can't figure out why life's so tough, why they're attracting all these people that are undesirable. Well, humble people attract humble people and arrogant people attract arrogant people. And so to have the aha moment.
There's another exercise I urge everyone to do and go to the ten closest people in your life—business, personal friends, everything—and say, what are my three greatest strengths and my three greatest weaknesses? Well, if they're going to be honest with you, seven out of ten are going to say, you're an arrogant prick. And so that's the starting point. You're not going to like some of what you learn, but to start to shift the needle toward becoming more humble, all of a sudden life's going to get a little better. And that's just, I'm just picking low-hanging fruit.
And so it could be as simple as you understanding that you are a terrible follow-through person. And here you are. You keep trying to follow through with things in life. Stop it. You suck at it. Hire a follow-through person that's the world's greatest follow-through person. But again, what happened there is I just learned more about myself because I'm terrible at following through, and I beat myself up for the last five years because I'm so disorganized and so terrible at following through. Well, most entrepreneurs are terrible at follow-through. They need somebody that's a great follow-through person, so that knowing themselves better, all of a sudden you fill that weakness, elevating yourself to more of your strengths.
And another thing might be you're great at sales and you should be spending ninety percent of your working time selling and that's it, and delegate everything else to everyone else. There's another aha. So you're going to learn strengths. You're going to learn weaknesses. And you're going to make these wonderful little course corrections getting you closer and closer and closer to the real you.
Do one of those things a quarter. Do one of those things a year, and the next ten years and ten years from now, you will not be the same person. You'll be making more money. More people will love you. You probably won't get divorced because right now you're on path to get divorced. Your kids may like you, or you're on a path for your kids not to like you. You may have more friends because a couple of them are about to bail on your arrogant ass. So it's, look at it as a ten year horizon and just take baby steps toward fully knowing thyself so you can fully be yourself.

INTERVIEW – PART 4 (MONEY & VALUE)
TONY: I love it, and one of the things, as you were saying this, is not all businesses need more money or want more money or are worried about money. You know, I'll just look at myself. There's no problem with bringing in sales, but there's other infrastructure and there's other parts of my world that are very important to put in. The money is not necessarily an issue, though it can be an issue for a lot of people. We think that everyone, all entrepreneurs and all leaders, may listen to shows like mine because they want to learn how to make more money, but that's not necessarily what they need.
So, and we're going to go over your three discoveries in just a moment. And some of your points. And I'm thinking, is money in quotes here, is that the big thing that we wind up becoming better at by this? Or are there other things that you see that change first? I'm kind of looking at from the point of view of, okay, I'm going to do these ten disciplines. What do I see changing? Because there's things that I need which is not necessarily money-related. I mean, everyone has their own different point depending on where they are on the scale. So I'm just kind of looking at, well, what do you see change for people when they work on this? I guess that's the simplified question.
GINO: Yeah. No, it's so good. And I have to back up and then go forward to your question because there's this thing. And whenever this happens, I am called to share it. Like, I can't not stop myself. So I'm going to go back to this know thyself question, because the other person I want to address, because there's somebody out there that needs to hear this right here and now in know thyself, you are going to understand and realize that you're nice and you're too nice, and there's such a thing as being too nice. Because you listen to my rant and you said, I'm not any of those things. I'm a really nice person. Well, that's what's holding you back. You're a people pleaser and you keep saying yes to everything and you've twisted yourself in a knot and you're miserable. Stop being so damn nice.
And so when you learn that about yourself, you're going to get a little tougher. You're going to start setting more boundaries. You're going to start saying no. And all of a sudden, ten year horizon, you're just going to start getting happier and happier and happier because you had the courage to say no to that damn thing you keep saying yes to that makes you miserable. So anyway, I just needed to say that to the nice person out there because you were taught to be nice and somehow you believe like that's the secret to life. It ain't. It's being your true self. And some of us are very intense and some of us are very nice, but nonetheless, the successful ones, we set boundaries.
And I learned this about me. I never realized what a people pleaser I was in my personal life, not in business. And so anyway, I needed to talk to you out there that needed to hear that. So back to your money question. So now let's talk about money. So here's, I'm going to give you the fast answer and then the slow answer. The fast answer is you are absolutely going to make more money. So applying everything I'm saying, you're going to make more money. I'm a capitalist. You need to make as much money as you want to make. And these tools are going to help you do that. But it's not about money. Money is just the byproduct. Money has never driven me. Money is not why I do what I do. I will take the money. I appreciate the financial independence, but money is a byproduct from being your true self. So the money will follow.
One of the disciplines is don't do twenty-five dollar an hour work. This is all about money because I've yet, you know, you hear this happy horseshit about, oh, money's not important. Oh. Money's evil. No, that's just somebody who's envious and jealous because other people are making more than them. So the power of that discipline is if you're sitting there complaining because you're making fifty grand a year, twenty-five dollars an hour, you can change all of that. And it's simply because you're doing twenty-five dollar an hour work. Start doing fifty dollar an hour work, seventy-five, hundred dollar an hour work, thousand dollar, one thousand dollar an hour work. The whole game will change.
And when you create awareness around the kind of work you're doing, you will then start delegating off those low dollar tasks. And then there are people out there that love making twenty-five dollars an hour. They love it and we need them. And thank God that's what makes the economy go round. They want to do all your twenty-five dollar an hour work for you. It's what makes this whole thing work. It's beautiful. So the money follows is my short answer. Uh, but it comes, and as much as you want.
TONY: I love it. Yes, as you put in a system and it works and it does, and it helps others, whether it's a product or physical or a service. The money comes in, the money comes in because people like it. They pay for it. So yeah.
GINO: And the last point on that, you have to provide value. And right now if you're making twenty-five dollars an hour, you're providing twenty-five dollars an hour in value. You need to increase the value you're providing the world. The world rewards us. It's never going to change. It's been this way for ten thousand years. It's going to be this way for ten thousand more. The world rewards us for the value that we provide.
And what's really difficult is for that poor person that is a caregiver that works harder than all of us caring for a loved one, and they get paid nothing. Listen, that's where the world isn't fair. You know, it's like this. There's no perfect system out there. But my God, it's just the way the world works. It rewards us for the value we bring. And then hopefully for that caregiver that's working for free for ten years for that loved one, killing themselves, hopefully there's a place in heaven that, like, they're sitting atop all of us. You know, I believe somehow they're going to get rewarded. Anyway, now I'm on a rant.
TONY: No, that's totally okay. I think it's a given that when you do good things, whether you get a reward now or later or something happens or you're here, you meet somebody later and something else happens and something happens, or next year something happens because you stay true to your core belief. And that's really, really important. That's why I said earlier it's not the focus on—and money. That's important. It's the focus on providing—well, I didn't say it, but you did. Providing that service, providing that product, providing something that is valuable that people like and they're in—in comes the money. And that's just kind of how it works. And those caregivers and people, their time will come. Something always—good. I see often good things happen to people, just sometimes it's later rather than sooner. But but I get it for us, for entrepreneurs, business people, what we're talking about here—produce something good that people like. They pay for it. There comes your money. Just keep that machine going, improve it, make it better, and you keep growing. I mean, that's a simplified word.
GINO: You got it right on. So thank you.

INTERVIEW – PART 5 (THE THREE DISCOVERIES)
TONY: Now we have these ten disciplines. But on top of that, everybody, but wait, there's more. And I'm not selling anything. There's three discoveries on top of that. Now we really quickly ran through the ten points. We stuck—we went over a few of them which I really, really enjoyed. But now there's three discoveries. When you do these, there's even more benefits.
GINO: Yeah. You bet. So the three discoveries for freeing your true self. So we've been touching on this. I mean, we have hit this ten different ways. And here's where it now all comes together and culminates into this beautiful, hopeful crescendo for all of you out there.
So the three discoveries, let's start with what they are at a high level. Discovery number one is I am driven. Discovery number two is that all decisions are made out of love or fear. Discovery number three is that it is possible to be driven and have peace.
And so let's take them one at a time, and then we'll do a little bit of a deep dive into number two. But we'll do this pretty quick. So discovery number one is just simply you discovering and realizing and accepting that you are driven. Driven people—it's about ten percent of the population—are odd ducks. In other words, they have this incredible power, blessing and a curse. They work harder than most. They create most things on this planet. They go hard. The curse is that they leave a black trail behind them. They do a lot of damage to relationships and to themselves, and there's a lot of trauma around it. We get ourselves in trouble and this starts at a very early age. And so this discovery is just discovering I am that and being aware of it, because when you become aware of it, you can start to tone it down. But most importantly, you can now go to discovery number two, which is all decisions are made out of love or fear.
Now this one goes really deep. I'm going to still keep it pretty high level and basic, but it's everything we've been talking about. It's understanding that every thought you have, every feeling you have, every decision you make, all of it is all coming from one of two places—love or fear. And for most of us, it's coming from fear. And when it's coming from fear that means that our ego is online. So here we are. Now back to that concept. And when it's coming from love, it's coming from our true self or one of those other words you may love—from your soul, from your spirit, from your heart, whatever you want to call it, we call it true self.
And so with that said, now if that made sense, every thought, every feeling, every decision is either coming from your ego or from your true self. And life is just better when it's coming from your true self inside out as opposed to your ego outside in. Outside in is where you're weighing it through comparison, competition, and judgment.
Now, once you understand that premise, we go all the way down to healing that. Because as we discussed, our true self is in there, typically wrapped in that ego cocoon. We talked about how we're balls of energy. So now that you understand everything about us as beings, as energy, where the ego is on hold and there's the cocoon, it's just blocked energy. It's blocked dark energy that's holding you back. And the idea is to shed all of those blocks, shed all of that, and then you take it all the way down to just becoming aware. And that means awareness. It means speaking the truth. It means becoming honest with yourself and everyone in your life.
And so with that awareness and that honesty, it's understanding when you have a thought, when you have a feeling, when you make a decision, know that it came from fear. And this will, it's a habit you build, ten year thinking, give it ten years. You may surprise yourself, it may happen a lot faster, but all of a sudden when that happens and you realize its fear, go to the root of the fear.
And so one of the disciplines is be still, as I mentioned. If everyone would adopt a thirty minute a day stillness practice, which sounds like a big time commitment, but it's transformational. Start with ten, work up to thirty. The reason most people fear stillness is because in stillness all the stuff comes up and when the stuff starts to come up and it comes up with as much pain as it went down, when the stuff starts to come up, we get really uncomfortable, we stuff it back down and our ego comes online and protects us.
And so it's all about going to the root of why we operate that way, why we think that way, why we're trying to protect ourselves from something we don't need to protect. Physical harm? Yes, but that's not what's going on. It's emotional harm. We're fearing things that just don't make any sense, but it makes total sense to our ego. And so it's just starting to shed that stuff. So then all of a sudden you start shedding it, all of a sudden you burn brighter, all of a sudden you're starting to make more decisions from love again.
All we're doing is slowly moving the needle. If next week you're going to make ten decisions, and last week all ten were from fear, and next week one is from love and nine are from fear, that's like, those are like, and that’s like a Richter scale. That is a monumental change in your life. And so you're just moving toward more love-based thoughts, feelings, and decisions. Hopefully that made sense.
TONY: It did. It made so much sense. I think of you. Ready for this? I am paying attention. I'm thinking of some of the most beautiful buildings in the world I've ever seen. Beautiful, beautiful buildings. People go to them. Tourist destinations I've seen. I've traveled a bit of the world. I've seen beautiful buildings. But guess what? Once upon a time, it was just a blank lot. It was just, it was just an empty field. And I'm thinking of what you're saying because I understand it. You got to grow it. You got to build it. You got to put it together. But when you're—and it's easy to say build a building. But when you go through that process and you build something really nice, it stands the test of time. People come to go see it as a tourist destination, whatever. It becomes really good. And these points as I'm getting them are things to work on and build. Not just, you know, not it's not like throwing your food in a blender and drinking it. It's really working with it. And when you're done, you've got a really nice enterprise.
GINO: Yeah. And so I love that analogy. And I would just, I want to shift that or at least add to it because right on, I just want to make sure we're being clear. It's like you could build this beautiful building or outer world package and look good on the outside, which most people do, or a lot of people do, and they're working so hard on that external package. This is about going inside the building and realizing, oh, there's a couple of cracks in the foundation. Now the elevator keeps breaking down. Oh, wait a second. This room needs to be renovated. So it's going inside that building and seeing, you know, structurally, what's going on there? Let's make sure that structure inside the building is strong. So that beautiful building can last forever.
TONY: Beautiful. Well said. Once again, this is Gino Wickman talking about entrepreneurial inner power. And we talked about mastering the inner game that fuels outer success. You can find him and please do find him at TheTenDisciplines.com. That's the number ten. TheTenDisciplines.com. Gino, I just want to thank you so much. You gave me some great points. I'm going to go through this again and really hunker down with it. I really loved it. I just want to thank you so much. This was great.
GINO: My pleasure, Tony. Had a blast.

OUTRO
TONY: All right. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. Well, there you go, guys. Uh, so great to have Gino on. He came on, shared amazing information. And if you like this, please share this with your friends. Tell them about Gino. Tell them about the Ten Disciplines. Tell them about some of the points he talked about—great balls, big, giant, great beautiful balls of energy. I love that. Tell them about what Gino's been through. It wasn't always, uh, you know, roses. He's been through quite a bit. And he came out and he is shining. Check out his book, Shine, and find out more. Gino at TheTenDisciplines.com.
And wherever you're getting this, please follow the show. It helps to bring in more amazing guests to you and it's totally free for you to subscribe or follow. All right, let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success.
Thanks. Remember, just take action. Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. So good seeds, do good deeds. And I'll see you on the next episode.

CLOSING SPONSOR MESSAGE – ODOO
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