TONY: Hey guys, this is Tony DUrso. And before we jump into today’s episode, I’ve got a couple of special things lined up for you. This is going to be a busy show. Now, at the very end of this show, I’m going to play one of my brand-new songs. It’s a song inspired by four powerful words that are printed on every U.S. coin and all U.S. paper money. You’ve seen these words your entire life, but when you hear them as a song, they’re going to hit completely differently. So stick around to the very end — I’m really excited to share it with you. And a quick heads-up: during our second break, I have an Insider’s Brief with two very special guests — former NFL quarterback Rodney Peete and actress Holly Robinson Peete. We’re going to talk about a health condition that affects over thirty-three million Americans, yet so many people hesitate to bring it up. Their story is powerful, honest, and could be important for someone you care about. Don’t miss that segment at the second break. Imagine building a company that your customers love, your employees thrive in, and the world actually thanks you for. That’s the West Paw story. Welcome back to the podcast. This episode is about more than business success — it’s about redefining what success looks like. My guest, Spencer, took a small pet toy company in Montana and turned it into West Paw. It’s a globally recognized brand and it’s the first certified B Corp in the pet industry. Spencer’s journey shows us how purpose and profits can work together, how culture can fuel growth, and how innovation can reshape even the most traditional industries. If you’ve ever wondered how to scale with impact, stand out in a crowded market, and stay resilient through the ups and downs — you’re about to get a masterclass. Let’s begin. Let’s bring him on.

Backstory & Vision TONY: Hi Spencer, welcome to The Tony DUrso Show. SPENCER: Hi Tony, thank you so much. I’m glad to be with you today. TONY: Oh, it’s an honor to have you. I love what you’re doing with animals, and we’re going to get into that. We’re all looking forward to learning about what I consider creating joyful leadership. But before we dive in, can we go over your backstory a little bit? How did it all start for you? What was your vision that made you go from where you were into a pet toy company? SPENCER: Well, that’s a great place to start, Tony. I’m happy to share my story because it feels like a long time ago — it was thirty years ago. I was twenty-three and moving back to Montana, and my vision around this business was: • How could I create jobs in manufacturing that have dignity? • How could I, as an owner, help grow a small company with a measurable impact on our community as those jobs grow? • And ultimately, how can we create the best products for pets that are also really thoughtfully designed for the planet? That’s a big vision, and I’m pleased that when I look back, I think: we’ve done that, and we continue to do that every day. The vision for us is to continue to grow this business so that the impacts we want to have on people, pets, and the planet continue to grow as the years go on. TONY: I presume you weren’t in the pet industry or the pet toy industry before this. How did you go from that into what you’re doing now? Was there any particular philosophy or mission or vision that said, “Hey, this is where I should be”? How did that all happen? SPENCER: Oh my gosh, that’s another layer deeper, and I’d love to share. I grew up on a working ranch in Montana. My family homesteaded here generations ago — I’m a fifth-generation Montanan. Growing up, we fixed a lot of fence, we fixed a lot of machinery, we were out with the animals — it was very hands-on. I’m also very dyslexic, so I see systems and things in three dimensions, and I’m very tactile. I want to touch things and build things. The idea that “I want to make something” was always part of my childhood. I was inventing little things as a kid, entering competitions, and even in high school I had a little toy business with two of my friends. The idea of physical product always inspired me. The big change for me was after college. For a year, I sold institutional research to money managers and traders on Wall Street. The guy I worked for was very innovative with his business — it was remote in 1995, way ahead of its time. But I was working in an industry I didn’t love, selling information to people who might or might not use it or value it. I craved something tangible. I came back to the roots of my upbringing: “Can I make something?” At the end of the day, could the whole team here at West Paw say, “We helped make something. We made this.” That passion burned deeply. When I was looking at moving back to Montana, a friend said, “There’s a woman who’s a great sewer of cat and dog toys — and you love pets. You should go talk to her and see about her little business.” She was a wonderful sewer, and he was right: I loved pets, and my wife and I had just decided to get our first chocolate lab — our first kid in the family, if you will. It was perfect. One thing led to another, I put a loan together, bought that business — it was very small — and I could learn by doing, which fit my learning style. I jumped into the industry with both feet. I didn’t really know how big the industry would be, but I thought, “Pets are going to be part of people’s lives forever. This seems like an opportunity.” And without much more than that, I jumped in.

Pets, Personality & Compassion TONY: That’s quite something. I’m a pet lover — I’ve had two dogs in the past thirty-plus years. One was an American Eskimo who lived to seventeen, and then a white Akita, about four times bigger than the Eskimo, who lived to almost fourteen. Very different personalities. I just love everything about pets. Now we have the neighbor dogs as our pets, and bunnies, and other things like that. There’s a difference when you’re a pet owner — in your personality, your mindset. How do you explain that? There’s more of an extension of you because you understand creatures and you have compassion toward them. I think that really helps in business relationships, family relationships, and so forth. It’s another dimension added to life — at least that’s my humble opinion. SPENCER: Yeah, Tony, I think you’re really on to something. As someone who’s had two wonderful dogs in your life, you understand the joy, connection, and health we get from caring for another being. Dogs are so dependent on us — for food, exercise, health, and healthcare. It’s a beautiful thing to give them love and affection and feel it come back. For me, that’s why this business is so fun. The people we attract generally love animals. As a team, we work well because we look at how to humanize business. We don’t approach each other transactionally; we approach each other as people — just as we want to show up for our dogs as people and make it personal. Now there are more and more studies affirming what humanity has always known: companionship adds health and wellness to our lives. Dogs and cats and other animals relieve stress — we see it daily. Science is finally catching up to what we’ve always known in our core: pets are beneficial to our lives and create joyful connection. TONY: Yeah, and there’s research and stories that say people with dogs or cats or animals — who take care of them — tend to live more fulfilling lives, maybe even longer lives. I’m a believer that people live longer because they have more responsibility and more love. Dogs especially — they teach us about unconditional love. It doesn’t matter — they’re happy to see you, happy that you’re there. Wouldn’t it be nice if we had more of that in the world? I think animals teach us, and that’s why I bring it up. SPENCER: They do. They really do.

Values-Based Manufacturing & Abundance Mindset TONY: We’re speaking with Spencer Williams, talking about creating joyful leadership. You can find him at West Paw — that’s WestPaw.com. Spencer, you’re a values-based manufacturer. You have people who are customers, people who are employees, you have relationships, you have the world, you have to make money. Now we’re adding all of that on top of what we just said — all these wonderful, glorious things about pets and dogs — but you’ve still got to make a profit. So I’m really curious: how do you keep that mindset? Maybe you don’t even know you’re consciously doing it. Maybe it’s just like taking your dog for a walk every day — it’s natural. But somehow you have this balance to grow. You’re the first B-certified pet company in the world, I believe, and I’d love more understanding of that. First question: how do you balance it all? SPENCER: Yeah. Well, I think we — and I say “we” because it’s the whole company — look at this from a mindset of abundance. Let me start with something simple: material. We do a lot of injection molding here in the factory where I sit in Bozeman, Montana. Almost all of our toys are produced here. They’re made from small bits of plastic that we melt and form into molds, and we end up with beautiful, recyclable, very durable, very safe toys. Conventionally, you’d think any little bit of waste you just sweep up, throw in the trash. People think, “What’s the big deal?” But when we think about it holistically — if we can reduce waste through recycling or better production methods — we’re good for the planet and good for profits. Our material is premium-grade. Any waste is just dollars thrown away. So we ask, “How can we answer multiple questions at once?” Same with people and leadership: it’s not “How much productivity can we extract?” It’s “How much productivity can we help unlock?” We talk about coaching people to grow inside the company and bringing in new ideas from outside. We’re unleashing talent. We can do more with less, pay people more to do the work they’re focused on doing, and think from abundance, not scarcity. A company is made up of nothing but people. When we think about what’s best for the employee, it usually aligns with what’s best for the company, and vice versa. That holistic mindset — growing and developing people while they add value to the business — is how I look at leadership. Our team really aligns with that. It helps us through hard times and lets us lean into the good times.

Commercial Segue & Odoo Ad TONY (segue): Spencer’s story is such a powerful reminder that purpose-driven companies aren’t built by accident. They’re built through clarity, consistency, and the courage to do things the right way. From a small Montana workshop to a globally respected brand, he’s proved that when you align vision with values, remarkable things can happen. And if you’re building something of your own — a business, a team, or a new idea — one of the smartest ways to keep everything running smoothly is with Odoo. TONY (Odoo read): Imagine you’re a business owner who has to rely on a dozen different software programs to run your company. Each one is expensive, overly complicated, and worst of all, none of them are connected. Now imagine a platform that can tackle all of your business management needs in one place. That platform you’re imagining — that’s Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you’ll ever need, and they’re all connected on a single, simple, easy-to-use software, giving you peace of mind that your business is always being taken care of from every angle. Odoo assists with accounting, marketing, inventory, HR, CRM, manufacturing, and everything in between through its user-friendly interface and open-source applications. Basically, if your business needs it, Odoo’s got it. Odoo sounds pretty amazing, right? So stop wasting your time and money on those expensive, disconnected platforms and let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. It doesn’t get much better than that. So what are you waiting for? Discover how Odoo can take your business to the next level by visiting odoo.com. Odoo — modern management made simple. And now, back to this great chat with Spencer.

Manufacturing in the U.S. & Competing Globally TONY: I’m thinking about this — you’re manufacturing in the U.S., right where you are. There are a lot of challenges with that. When you say, “I’m manufacturing in the U.S.,” most people think, “Why the U.S. and not overseas? Indonesia, China, Mexico — it’s cheaper, labor costs are lower, cost of living is lower,” and so on. You’ve taken the initiative to manufacture there. There’s a tradeoff: you can monitor things better, quality control is better, you’re hands-on, you can grow the company better. But you also have disadvantages. Let’s go over the pros and cons of manufacturing in the U.S. SPENCER: It’s very timely. People are talking about bringing businesses back to the United States — making the supply chain shorter, avoiding tariffs, and so on. Since 1996, West Paw has had the idea that we’re going to make everything we possibly can right here in the U.S., and not just in the U.S. — in Bozeman, Montana. We love that challenge. This is what I mean when I talk about employees and how people look at challenges here. People don’t say, “Oh, that’s so hard, how do we avoid it?” They say, “Let’s overcome that. Let’s figure out something. Let’s unlock team talent and grow.” I’m looking out at our production floor right now. I can see through the windows. It’s so cool to be here and hear the machines running in the background. I know everybody out there is “solving for tomorrow” — that’s one of our core values. They’re solving for what we can do better. In U.S. manufacturing, if you’re complacent, the global market will eat you up. We educated our employees on why lean manufacturing and Toyota Production System methods matter — how we make the company as efficient as possible while putting humans at the center. Then we started unlocking their potential to compete globally by driving down costs, making it right the first time, reducing waste, and doing just-in-time manufacturing. There are many ways American manufacturers can compete globally when they’re smart about building a culture of hardworking people, aligning incentives so the company wins and everyone wins together, investing in technology (automation and machinery that runs predictably), and the “soft technology” of philosophies like lean. We’ve built a brand around efficiency and great service, and we’ve added great culture and environmental responsibility on top of that. We can compete globally, and we leverage that value so our product and company earn the premium price they deserve. There’s real opportunity in America to have a lot more manufacturers here when they’re focused on how to win in a higher-cost environment and how to leverage people and technology to make products as close as possible to their customer.

Culture, Joyful Leadership & Jobs With Dignity TONY: I mentioned this in the intro a little bit, and you just touched on it — the culture. We’ve gone over manufacturing in the U.S., your purpose, the toys, and doing it for society while running a profit and balancing that. But now you’ve got a very strong culture — a very joyful leadership base with a strong employee base. What are some of the key principles you keep in place to help build, develop, and grow that culture? SPENCER: First, as I mentioned at the beginning of the call, something innate in how I look at people: we wanted to create jobs with dignity. What does that mean in today’s world? It’s a deep question and core to how we operate. These are not just cogs in a machine or nodes in an office. These are people who should have dignity and be treated as such. We also talked about humanizing business. When we humanize business, we see each other for who we are and move away from transactional thinking. When we ask, “How can we create more out of this business together, collaboratively?” we start to unlock people’s talents. I’ve watched people in this business over nearly thirty years come up with ideas, contribute those ideas, get recognized by the team and our customers, and know they’re part of something bigger than themselves. I think we all crave to be part of something bigger and more impactful than ourselves. People say, “Being on a team is the greatest thing” — it is, if you love being on that team. It’s the idea of extending positive impact beyond yourself that really matters. So our teams really matter to us. That human element, that dignity, that humanizing business — that’s what sets our culture apart. Over thirty years, we’ve had ups and downs. Culture isn’t static and flat. I think of it like sourdough. I love to bake. My wife and I keep a sourdough starter. If you don’t feed it, it goes flat and dormant. Sourdough is meant to rise and fall over its life cycle week to week as you bake. Culture doesn’t stay flat — it goes up and down. You have to understand and embrace those cycles because people are a system in themselves. Even in hard times, our teams come together. They recognize the challenges, recognize what we’ll do to get out of it, how to solve for tomorrow. And we get out of it together. That “together” part is everything.

Teams, Loyalty & Retention TONY: That’s really good to recognize and understand. I’ve been podcasting for ten years, and I’m sure I’ve said multiple times how great it is to be an entrepreneur and work your own hours. You work longer hours but you’re happier, and I’ve said many things about entrepreneurs. While you were talking, something important floated up for me: teams. In my corporate life, and even in entrepreneurship, I’ve seen that when you’re working with a team, you feel you can get more done — and you do get more done because you have the support and backup of people. I’ve met people who would rather work for a good company, and it doesn’t even always matter what the pay scale is, because it’s the team. “I love my job. I love my work.” That passion is so strong — stronger than the money. Yes, we need money to live, but that team camaraderie is powerful. When you get that in a company, sometimes even if they’re offered something else, they stick with it because they recognize they have something precious. SPENCER: Right on, Tony. I couldn’t agree more. People need to be respected through compensation, and they need opportunities to grow their skill set — sometimes in other companies over time. Diversity of work can create a better career and better employees. What we find, though, is that because our culture is so strong, and because people truly feel recognized for their contributions to their teams and the company, they don’t tend to make demands like “give me a raise or I’m gone.” People stay, and they grow their compensation and their career here, because they feel validated, connected, and appreciated. That’s not just me — that’s everyone. It’s a culture we all create together. Our turnover is very low. Our hiring is strong. We can hire at high levels. One of our team members said yesterday, “I can’t believe we just filled those production roles literally in hours.” When we use temp agencies, our roles fill in minutes. People don’t necessarily know me, but they know the company and the culture. To your point: yes, we want to pay fairly and honorably. But money doesn’t always buy the kind of relationship, connection, and productivity that great culture and leadership can. And money won’t retain someone who wants to leave a toxic environment. We’re grateful we focus on these things because they add value. Going back to what I said earlier about waste on the floor — saving that material is good for the planet and profits. Similarly, investing in people, culture, leadership, and meaningful work means people stay longer, which saves a lot of turnover cost. It’s a win-win: they win and the company wins. It’s abundance together.

Leading Through Uncertainty TONY: You might think this is a trick question — I never ask trick questions — but the world changes. We don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. We think we do, but by tomorrow at 11 a.m., it’s different. The future is uncertain. You mentioned tariffs, manufacturing in the U.S. Tomorrow something else could happen. I’m not even going to conjecture what — we’d spend hours on that. The point is: there’s uncertainty. I believe that when people are in a company they enjoy, with strong benefits and fair pay, they’ll be more loyal and want to stay despite ups and downs. But still, there are ups and downs — we saw major ones a few years ago. So how do you deal with it when something big happens and you have to change, shift, and adapt? How do you personally lead during those times? SPENCER: Great question. We’ve seen highs and lows. One thing I’ve always done — and there are now books about this — is practice open-book thinking and transparency with employees. Some people go further than we do; some are less open. In the early days, it meant sharing difficult decisions and big wins openly over a meal — lunch, snacks, whatever. I remember the first time it really hit home. Our factory was very small and in a small town outside Bozeman. After a couple of years, I decided to move to a place where we could grow the facility over time. It was only about twenty miles away, but over a mountain pass. We shared the difficult news with our employees over breakfast. We didn’t have many employees — maybe eight — but it was important to be transparent about: • Why this move had to happen • Why it would be better for them in the future if they stayed • How we’d accommodate their schedules now that they’d drive thirty minutes to work That kind of transparency in hard times, with hard decisions, is crucial. If a company goes through a hard patch, has to cut costs, reduce labor or equipment, or loses a big customer — it’s important to go to people with everything you can tell them. Even the hard stuff like, “Here’s how we came to this decision and why.” “This and this happened. We believe this and this will happen. Therefore we must make careful, hard decisions.” When a business doesn’t hide behind corporate speak or a long memo but has a human stand up and talk — again, over lunch, over a snack — and shares honestly, it creates trust. Trust is foundational in all relationships. In hard times, many leaders want to go quiet and “just get through it.” In my experience, that’s the worst thing to do. Share what you can, build that layer of trust. You will be wrong sometimes; you won’t see everything perfectly; people won’t always agree. But at least you’re standing on a foundation of trust, saying, “I’m sharing all I can. I don’t have to share all this, but I’m choosing to.” As you go through hard times, people come together, see a path together, and think, “I want to be part of this — part of the turnaround, the recovery, the launch, the next phase.” That’s where we come back to team and culture. So in hard times, my advice: share openly, keep giving updates, don’t sit in a corner, don’t go quiet. And then, the hard part for entrepreneurs: listen. What are employees telling you that you might not want to hear? That’s often where the great ideas come from.

INSIDER’S BRIEF: Overactive Bladder (OAB) NARRATOR (TONY): Here’s an Insider’s Brief about a condition that millions struggle to discuss. We speak with former professional quarterback Rodney Peete and Holly Robinson Peete, who discuss something that apparently thirty-three million Americans suffer from — a condition called overactive bladder, or OAB for short. Rodney Peete is a former professional quarterback who played sixteen seasons with several teams. He’s a Hall of Fame USC quarterback, where he earned First Team All-American honors and the Johnny Unitas Award. Holly Robinson Peete is a well-known actress who has been on a ton of shows — too many to list — such as Sesame Street and many Hallmark favorites such as The Christmas Doctor and Morning Show Mysteries. Hi Holly and Rodney, and welcome to the show. We’re all interested to find out more about this. Let’s start with you, Rodney. What inspired you to start sharing your symptoms about OAB now? RODNEY: I think it was very important for me to start sharing my story with OAB, especially because Holly has been dealing with it for about four or five years now, and she was the one that encouraged me to go see a doctor. So often, men shy away from our health and from going to see a doctor. I wanted to encourage more people, especially men, to go see a doctor if they have any symptoms concerning OAB. If they’re planning their life or daily routine around going to the bathroom, then they need to go check themselves out with a doctor. We neglect our health so often as men, and thank God I have a wife who nudges me from time to time to go see a doctor. TONY: Holly, how did your experience help you encourage Rodney to get care? HOLLY: Well, I was diagnosed with OAB four years ago. I was with a group of girlfriends and we were talking about our health and different things. I thought it was just menopause causing my urgency and frequency to urinate — and these leakage episodes. It turns out it was not. It was actually OAB, which thirty-three million Americans have symptoms of. I didn’t know that until a friend shared her experience. She recommended I go to a doctor. I went, and the doctor said, “You do have OAB, and I’m going to recommend Gemtesa for you.” Gemtesa really improved my symptoms. So I went home and realized Rodney had the same symptoms. It took him a minute to go to the doctor and talk about it, but he eventually did — and that’s how he found out he also had OAB. TONY: Rodney, why do you think so many men are hesitant to talk to their doctor about OAB? RODNEY: I think men in general are hesitant to talk to a doctor about OAB or any other symptoms because of fear — fear of what the results may be. That causes a lot of men to pause and not go see a doctor. When in fact, the sooner you go, the better chance you have to find a remedy or something that can help your situation — like I did. Thank God the doctor recommended Gemtesa for me, because it’s helped me with my symptoms. TONY: Are there any side effects? HOLLY / RODNEY (INFO): Yes. With any prescription, there are potential side effects. The most common side effects of Gemtesa are headache, UTI, nasal congestion, sore throat or runny nose, diarrhea, nausea, and upper respiratory tract infection. TONY: What do you hope families take away from your story? HOLLY: I hope families have more open conversations about health in general — and certainly about this. If you notice a partner or friend is planning their entire day around bathroom breaks, definitely encourage them to talk to a doctor, see if they have OAB, and see if Gemtesa might be an option. TONY: Where can we go to learn more? RODNEY: You can visit TimeToGo.com to learn more about OAB and Gemtesa. Holly and I are on there, and you can find a lot of information about OAB — so check it out, TimeToGo.com. TONY: Rodney and Holly, thank you once again. And now, back to this great chat with Spencer.

Communication, Meetings & Visibility TONY: Spencer, how often would you say you have an employee meeting where you stand up and talk to the whole company? Do you have a monthly meeting or weekly? How often? SPENCER: We do a monthly all-staff where we run through key performance metrics and some financial numbers. We used to do it weekly years ago, but that was a lot for employees — the pace was too constant. Every month we shut down factory operations between two of our shifts so everyone can be there in person. We also share through internal messaging — email, Teams posts, and we record it and share the recording. Technology makes it easy for small companies to be open and honest. When there’s strategic planning, we also share afterward. Every quarter, we do an offsite for a day. We look at our rocks, develop new rocks, review performance indicators, then come back and do about an hour or hour-and-a-half presentation. Most of that is content — where the company has been, where it’s going in the next quarter or year, and how we’re progressing toward goals. The really important part is the Q&A at the end. “What do people want to ask?” We say, “Ask anything.” That’s important. So: every month, all-staff; every quarter, a strategic update; and every day, standing huddles with teams. I pop into those huddles — not every week or day, but I’m visible. Whether you’re online or in person, being visible as a leader is super important. TONY: You answered one of my upcoming questions while you were talking, but I’ll expand on it. I’ve worked in what I call corporate America for at least three decades. The last place I worked was typical of a lot of places: the person in charge — CEO, president, what have you — does all the talking. At my last job, the person in charge would do these two-hour talks and did not enjoy people asking questions or trying to go in a different direction. They wanted to keep it “on point,” and it became very one-sided. I see that a lot: it’s one-sided. I believe you and your employees might not even realize how fortunate they are to work in a company like this — and I say that sincerely. Usually, the person in charge is the visionary, the founder, the person who built the business. They keep a lot of stuff close to their chest, and because they’ve built it to seven or eight figures, they say, “This is how it’s done.” Not out of ego necessarily, but out of long habit. Yet the world changes. It’s hard sometimes to get that understanding to the CEO — to listen to something else. So the fact that you allow questions — I’m not being facetious — I think it’s amazing. You allow questions and communication to come in, because these are the things your employees care about. You may not think about it, but they do, and they bring it up. That kind of communication level is really important. SPENCER: It is, and it means being willing to take some hard questions. In 2021, we had a hard question. We were having a tough year, and an employee who’d been here a long time asked, “Spencer, what’s it like to own a company that hasn’t yet been profitable this year?” First of all, that question showed a lot of care. I’m the owner — I have personal guarantees on loans and lines of credit. But that was not a softball question. I was in front of the staff and thought, “Okay, let me level with you.” It doesn’t feel great. There’s a lot of risk. But if you say, “I’m not going to answer that, that’s too hard,” what happens? The trust barometer goes way down. Any question is fair. Sometimes I’ll turn to others: Lamont, who runs manufacturing; Julie, who runs sales and marketing; Jordan on personnel issues. I don’t want to answer every question. Often someone closer to the work should answer it. That’s important. It doesn’t all have to go through the CEO or HR. Whoever is closest to the work can answer. I love that.

B Corp Certification & Business as a Force for Good TONY: I like that. I had a thought on products I’ll mention later as a long-term dog lover. Let’s move on. I mentioned at the very beginning that you’re a certified B Corp in the pet industry. My audience of entrepreneurs and business owners are thinking, “What does that mean? Why is it important? What does that have to do with growing your business?” SPENCER: Great question. Like a lot of what we’re talking about today, you run a company in line with your values. Small and big businesses alike can have great values. You can’t “fake” it — people see through that now. So when I think about B Corps, I want to say: West Paw was always about sustainability, employee wellness, treating customers well, and giving back to the community. Those were core tenets from 1996. We used to make cat toys and sell certified organic catnip. Oregon Tilth, which certifies organic products today, was our certifier back in 1996. In Bozeman back then, you might not have been able to buy a single head of certified organic lettuce — but we were selling certified organic catnip because we cared about the cat’s health and the cleanliness of the planet. Fast-forward from 1996 to around 2012, when we first certified as a B Corp. It wasn’t a change in how we saw our business — it was codifying who we are as a company that cares about people, community, and environment. A certified B Corp is part of a group overseen by an organization called B Lab — like a lab for new ideas about how businesses can be a force for good. It doesn’t matter if you’re “perfectly” environmentally friendly on a single metric — it’s about your combination of values: • Environment • Employees • Community • Workers • Governance B Lab looks at all of that. When a business meets the minimum standard across those criteria, it certifies as a B Corp. We did that in 2012 and went active shortly after. We were the pet industry’s first. The movement has grown a lot since. Today you have famous B Corps like Patagonia, Ben & Jerry’s, and more recently Nespresso — large companies alongside small ones. For consumers — and in our case, retailers — B Corp status helps them understand the values a company talks about are more than marketing. It says, “This company proves it’s a good business, not just a good brand.” I love that. It differentiates good marketing from companies that can prove they’re run well and do good. Collectively, thousands of businesses worldwide are moving together to make business a positive and consistent force for good. That’s why we’re a B Corp.

My Facet Minute TONY: And now it’s time for My Facet Minute. It’s a quick story about something close to my heart. You know, people sometimes look at everything I do — the podcast, the books, the newsletter, the music, the Southgate Foundation helping widows, orphans, and the infirm — and they ask, “Tony, what drives all this?” Honestly, it’s simple: I want to help people today. Not someday. Not in some distant future. Right now. Every interview, every insight, every story — my goal is to give you something you can use this week, today, even in the next hour of your business or your life. I love creating, but what I love even more is knowing that something I made — an episode, a line in a book, a lyric in a song — might give you a spark of clarity, hope, or courage exactly when you need it. That’s what keeps me going. And that’s why I show up every week. Because if even one person walks away with something that helps them move forward, that means everything to me. And before we dive back into this great conversation with Spencer, I want to take a quick moment to thank you for being here. Thank you. Your support means the world to me, and I truly appreciate you following and listening to The Tony DUrso Show on your favorite podcast platform, like Apple Podcasts. If you’re enjoying this conversation and getting real value, please hit that Follow button and tell your friends about what you’ve learned. It helps us continue bringing you these incredible guests and impactful discussions. And one more quick note — if you’re loving the insights you’re hearing today, make sure you’re getting my twice-monthly Elite Entrepreneurs Newsletter. It’s packed with actionable strategies from the show, highlights from top books and podcasts, and special shout-outs to our community. No cost, no gimmicks. Join me at tonydurso.com/news. Let’s grow together and keep rising. And now — back to this great chat with Spencer.

Innovation in a Crowded Pet Industry TONY: I like that — that’s very good. Now, how does all of this help in a crowded market? The pet industry, as I understand it, is very crowded. Product innovations are constantly hitting the market. I want to talk to you about that. It’s a crowded space — entrepreneurs and people out there with new products and ideas trying to build things and make money very fast. You’re more of a long-term, ten-year “grow, grow, grow” approach — but you still have to bring new ideas out there. I’ll mention my new-idea story with you in a moment so I won’t keep you in suspense too long. But first: given that I was immersed in the pet industry for about three decades — in stores all the time, speaking to vets, buying products for my dogs — things constantly change. How do you deal with that? SPENCER: We look at the business and ask: “How do we make long-term decisions that create long-term value?” One differentiator for West Paw is that we put a lot of thought and intention into: • Our raw materials • Our product design • The solution the product provides • Where and how we make it • Who it impacts Each of those is a value-creator for the end consumer. We notice a lot of “fast fashion” in the market — brands grow quickly by cranking out a huge assortment of SKUs fast, then discontinuing many of them. Those obsolete products become waste. We don’t look at things that way. We want to make durable products — durable in materials and design — that literally last a long time. That’s controversial in consumer products, because many follow planned obsolescence: things are built to fail in five years so you have to buy again. I hate that idea. It strains the company, the planet, and people’s pocketbooks. We’d much rather create thoughtful products that last a long period of time, that people can enjoy with their pets safely. Each of those value drivers matters. When customers buy something from us, we want them to believe in us, to know they’re buying the best. That holds true at the retail level and the consumer level, because we mostly sell to retailers. We want them to understand we’re not just putting out junk and throwing it at the wall to see what sticks. We’re thoughtful. We make long-term decisions that create long-term value. TONY: Totally agree. I’m not trying to put you on the spot — I want to be clear, I don’t work that way — but here’s a story. My last dog and I had a thing where we’d buy toys a couple of times a week — five bucks, ten bucks — with squeakers in them. His command was, “Get the squeaky!” We’d give him the toy and he’d tear it up, attack it, pull that squeaker out. I’d wind up with a huge pile of squeakers, and he’d do it quickly. Then, years later, the toys all changed and became “indestructible.” That whole “get the squeaky” game changed. I bring this up because maybe I’m an anomaly — one in 400 million pet owners — but whatever people want, I’d think if you spend time surveying, speaking with them, seeing what they want hands-on in stores, you learn a lot. Maybe more people want that kind of play. I don’t know. But after toys changed, we thought, “How can we make these ourselves?” I share that because there may be things people want that you only discover by hanging out with them, talking to them in pet stores, meeting them. You learn so much from customers. SPENCER: You really do. You learn how people enjoy the products, how they want to play, what their dogs like. For me as a pet parent, I love to play with my dog Nico. I watch how he interacts with me and with toys on his own. It’s super cool to have that connection to innovation — “What can we do that’s more fun?” That’s the neat thing about what we talked about earlier: how we, as people, get to participate with our pets. We give them love and care, and they give it back in play and affection. It’s awesome.

Final Advice for Entrepreneurs TONY: Last question. If you were asked — and you are being asked now — to give one piece of advice to entrepreneurs and businesspeople in the world, especially those just starting out, what would you say? SPENCER: I’d say there are really important challenges in the world that businesses can help solve. I’d challenge an inspired entrepreneur to think about how to create a business that helps solve those challenges [and] makes a lasting, profitable contribution to society over many years. It’s not all about transactional thinking or how fast you can get in and out. I want to speak to people who think about creating durable value: • For themselves • For their employees • For their community Value creation can exist in businesses today and can create a lot of good — and a lot of wealth — at the same time. That’s what I want to encourage entrepreneurs to pursue today: that vision. TONY: I love it. Once again, this is Spencer Williams, talking about creating joyful leadership. You can find him at West Paw. Spencer, great advice, great information. I love this topic. I could keep talking about pets because I truly appreciate what a company like yours does. Very, very appreciated. I want to thank you for the advice and information. I kind of relived a little bit of the joy I’ve had with my “kids,” believe it or not — I’m serious. Thank you so much. SPENCER: Well, Tony, this has been such a great conversation with you. It’s so natural, and I’m grateful for the impact you provide with all your work, your literature, and these podcasts. This is an amazing opportunity — thank you so much. TONY: My pleasure. Thank you so much.

Tony’s Wrap-Up TONY: Well, there you go. That was absolutely amazing. Guys, if you like this, share it with your friends. Tell them about Spencer, tell them about West Paw, tell them what they’ve done and how they’ve built this culture where — no matter what’s going on in the world, almost — people love working there. There’s stability and camaraderie there. Find out more about what they do, and maybe there are items or points you can incorporate into your company or business — whatever you’re doing. Understand what he’s been through. It’s not a walk in the park, but it’s a large, successful company and they’ve been able to pivot and deal with whatever society’s thrown at them. There’s a lot to learn here. Wherever you’re getting this, would you please follow the show? It helps bring more amazing guests to you. Thank you so much. All right — let’s use this and let’s help you move on your journey to success. Thanks, and remember: Just Take Action. Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. Sow good seeds, do good deeds, and I’ll see you on the next episode.

Song Introduction: “In God We Trust” TONY: And before we close out today’s episode, I want to share something special with you — something I mentioned at the start of the show. This is my brand-new song, inspired by four powerful words that are printed on every U.S. coin and every dollar. You’ve seen these words your entire life, but when you hear them as a song, they carry a whole new meaning. It’s called “In God We Trust.” For best results, close your eyes and turn it up. Here it is.

“In God We Trust” — Lyrics Walking by a bus stop, not even a buck, Feeling everything is just plain old stuck. A dime on the ground, I held it to the light, What it said restored my sight. In God we trust, the words shine true, Guiding my steps in all I do. Through trials and storms I find my place, In God we trust, amazing grace. Yeah, I took the next bus though my pocket had no fare, I told the driver my life with a humble prayer. He gave a smile and said, “Go on, son,” I knew then that my hope had begun. In God we trust, the words shine true, Guiding my steps in all I do. Through trials and storms I find my place, In God we trust, amazing grace. I found a diner with a crowd at the door, And asked the kind lady if I could do more. She smiled and said, “You can stay if you try.” With a dime in my hand, I whispered on high: When the road feels heavy and hope runs thin, That coin reminds me where faith begins. One small coin, yet a truth so wide — In God we trust, forever my guide. In God we trust, the words shine true, Guiding my steps in all I do. Through trials and storms I find my place, In God we trust, amazing grace. Forever we sing, In God we trust, Forever we sing, In God we trust.

Final Sign-Off TONY: Once again, that’s “In God We Trust,” a song that truly came to me as a gift from God. I hope you enjoyed it, and I’d love to hear your feedback. Thank you for listening, and thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I hope this episode — and this song — give you something meaningful to take with you. And by the way, this song is part of my very first album, coming out in just a few weeks. If you’d like updates or want to hear more of the new music, visit tonydurso.com/music. I appreciate you. And once again, thanks — and remember: Just Take Action. Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. Sow good seeds, do good deeds, and I’ll see you on the next episode.