Intro: Are you ready for an open discussion with the best of the best and the best of what’s next? Welcome to the Tony DUrso. Join in on a great conversation today with some of the world’s great influencers as they showcase great advice and techniques that made them the game changers they are today. Now here’s Tony DUrso. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Michele PW Tony: Welcome. I’m your host, Tony DUrso. I interviewed some of the top entrepreneurs in the world and I thank you for joining us. I broadcast every Friday at 2:00 PM Pacific on Voice America’s Influencers channel and you can listen to all of our shows on your Android or Apple device. Go to Tony durso.com/mobile and get the app, Tony d u r s so.com/mobile before we get going, here’s a big thank you to some amazing sponsors of our show. Please stay tuned for an important message from Capterra, the leading free online resource to help you find the best software solution for your business and coming up as a significant message from better help about getting private assistance in areas such as depression, stress, anxiety, anger, conflicts, and more. Also, listen for a vital message from Linkedin on how the right hire can make a huge impact on your business. More Info on them, just head so please stay tuned. Today’s show is with Michele PW and Jonathan Robinson, Love Copywriter and Love Coach. Alright, here’s some info on Michele. Michele PW is the author of the bestselling love based business series of books, which includes Loved Based Copy, Love-Based Online Marketing, Love-Based Money and Mindset and Love Based Goals. These books share how you can sell more with love and build a solid profitable business on a foundation of love versus a foundation of fear. Okay, here we go. Welcome to the show Michele so, glad to have you on. Michele: Well, I’m so glad to be here. Thank you. Tony: Great, I am very much looking forward to this for multiple reasons. I want to learn myself and I have a very large entrepreneurial audience out there, small business owners, even people in corporate level execs. I’d love to learn all about this and any other points that you can give. But first things first Michelle, I want to know, we want to know how did it all start for you? What’s your backstory? Michele: So, when I was in high school, I was casting around for something, something else to do to make money while I wrote my novels and people said to me, Oh, you should be a journalist. And I said, I absolutely do not want to be a journalist. I was in college when I sort of discovered this whole wacky world of copywriting, which is writing promotional materials for businesses. And I specialize and became what’s known as a direct response copywriter. And what a direct response copywriter, is we’re writing the copy that your ideal prospects are directly responding to. So for instance, an email that asks you to click on a link or if you go to a page and it says, you can have access to a video training or free book. If you give your name and email address or a sales page that you’re scrolling down forever going, God, you know, does anybody read these things and why is it so long? Because you want to buy something. That’s all of it. And that’s called a long copy sales letter. All of that are examples of direct response copy. Tony: Very interesting. And I understand that the marketing company that you founded sold over $50 million worth of products and services. Michele: Yes, that’s how many that’s for my clients. Yes over doing this. And what I, what I’ve actually found was something called love-based copy. It’s a lot of people said, well, you know, that sounds good, but does it actually work? And the answer is, well, yes it does work. And the reason why is because when I kind of got into this whole, the whole marketing thing, it’s all about persuasion. And in a lot of cases, if you want to persuade anybody to take action, you have to tap into their emotions and you have a choice. You can tap into their fear-based emotions or their love-based emotions and their fear-based emotions are things like fear, shame, guilt, anger, grief. Now obviously some of those emotions are not very good for persuasion. Fear and shame are. So a lot of people were saying to me, you know that they didn’t like the way traditional direct response copy made them feel. And it because it made them feel icky and inauthentic and all this other stuff. Well, that’s because it’s tapping into the fear-based emotions. So I teach a different way, which is persuading with love and selling more with love. And that’s because you’re tapping into love-based emotions. Tony: Now this is very interesting now, years, years, years ago, I used to tell people just casually the difference in restaurants. I’ve been to many good restaurants and there is a difference in how the food tastes are all based upon that chef or cook and the love that that person has for the food and the pride they have. And you can taste it in any place, whether the chef cares for that food or not, it actually changes how the food tastes. And that here’s just casually, you know, I would tell friends about this and I always like restaurants where the chef puts the love into the food. But now I’ve got to ask you, Michele Love and copywriting, you touched upon this a little bit, but love thou people think in their minds like, I love you and love this. Can you give us more drill down? What do you mean by love and copywriting? Michele: So, I’m talking about love- based emotions, not necessarily which is love, but it’s not just romantic love or love that you would have for a parent or a child. You know, it’s more about tapping into people’s passions, their hopes. You know, what the where the, more inspirational. That’s more the love-based piece that I’m talking about. I’m not that the copy that you write, I mean it’s, there’s a difference between writing something that’s like inspirational and versus a, what we’re saying there can be some inspirational elements. It doesn’t have to be, but it’s more motivational. It’s also more like you educate people and then you step back and let them make the decision rather than pursuing them. So, cause a lot of traditional direct response copy and marketing and sales and the person is pursuing them. And so what happens if you pursue somebody, there are only two things a person can do. They can either submit or fight or, there is no other way, so that’s why there’s kind of the sort of imbalance of power when you switch over to the love love-based, you know, like I said, it’s less about the romantic love and all that other stuff and it’s more than just about how do you want to show up? How do you, you know, do you want to show up and not be triggering these fear-based emotions? Do you want to be building your business on a foundation of love? So, on this foundation of a sort of, making the world a better place on your passion, on hopes really changing the world for the better. That’s what I’m really talking about. Tony: I got you, Michele. I like to break this down and understand the difference. Okay, there’s persuasion. You know, hey, you need this map because it’s the best map and it cleans your floor faster than ever. Whatever. I get that and the person’s trying to persuade us. Can you take us into perhaps maybe showing us or comparing what would be a persuasive type communication as opposed to a love based type of communication? Michele: So you mean like love-based persuasion versus fear-based persuasion? Tony: Well, isn’t there three types? There’s fear-based, there’s love-based and there’s just, hey buy this because we said this is good or great, but there’s no real engagement in it. So you’re putting more into it, you’re putting more emotion and I just want to separate it out for the audience so we can see, compare and contrast. Michele: Well, I would argue that even, I hear what you’re saying, but I would actually argue that that third one that you’re saying that doesn’t it, I mean there’s, I would say there’s good persuasion and bad persuasion. And if the persuasion, does not tap into the emotions and it’s not persuasive, I mean, then it’s just, it’s just kind of a sales message. So really the only way, the only way you really don’t, the only way you persuade people’s if you tap into their emotions and if you fail to tap into either emotion, then you’re not really persuading. You’re just, they’re just kind of making, you’re just saying words. So, the difference between kind of fear and love would be, like, here’s an example, it’s like, how it’s like a way to do takeaway sales. That’s a very powerful technique. And, uh, and you see this like infrequently as questions. So, somebody would say, like, you know, it’s like, oh, well I don’t have the time or the money for this program. And in the fear-based way of saying that, of answering that would be like, well, obviously you’re not taking yourself seriously as an entrepreneur. If this was a business program, um, or you would be or you would find the time and money, you know, successful people always find the time and money to do these things. And you obviously don’t have no interest in being successful because you’re telling me you can find the time or money. So you see how that feels and it can be very effective. So if you were doing it from a love base way, then you would say something to the effect of, I get it. in order to move forward with this, you know, there may be, times, you may not have the time. Maybe you don’t have the time this year, you know, maybe you’ve got a sick mom or you know, you’re this or you’re sick or you know, you’re taken care of. So taking care of people and you’re really not in a position to, do this, and that’s fine. We’ll be here next year, and so it’s up to you to decide what you want to do, but if you’re ready to make this transformation if you’re ready to make this leap and you’re ready to do what it takes and come on board and let’s get started. So you see the difference between, you know, one way is just sort of acknowledging that what they’re doing, you’re, you’re basically educating and acknowledging and then stepping back and letting them decide if they are ready to do it or not, which is actually far more powerful anyways because the problem when you persuade was fear. Like the first way I did it, if you kind of shamed them into buying your program, that sale is probably not going to stick. The client is not going to follow through because they didn’t really, they were shamed into it. So they did. It wasn’t, they didn’t really make that decision. But when you do it from the love-based perspective, now you’ve got people who are far more committed and are going to do the work and it’s going to end up being, it’s going to be a much more powerful for them and for you. And it’s going to just be a lot easier as well. Tony: I see and Michelle when we see offers of items that we’re interested in and there’s this clock counting down and it says, hurry, this offer won’t last soon. You’ve got to buy this now. Is that a fear based? Cause I don’t see the love in that. Michele: Yes, yes that’s definitely triggering into fear of this fear of missing out. So yeah, that’s definitely triggering into the fear base. And you can do that from a love based, by the way. I mean, I don’t know if I would necessarily, I mean like that countdown clock is really gimmicky, but there is nothing wrong with having a deadline because it’s just, it’s how we do it. So in other words, we all stand in our own way and sometimes we need that kick in the butt to get us to do something and sometimes I kick in the butt is okay, the program starting tomorrow or the price is going up tomorrow so you have to buy today and just as long as you say it like that, like the whole hurry in exactly what you said, the countdown clock, all that over the top stuff is what turn is what really tips it into fear and if it, but you know, if you set it with love based so it would be more along the lines of okay, you know, just letting you know the deadlines tonight. Do you want to move forward? Great. You know, you’re going to get it, get it at this price. The class is starting. If you wait until tomorrow then we can catch you next time or whatever. So that’s the difference. The differences are kind of stepping back and letting them make the decision. Tony: I see very clever stuff and I really appreciate this information you’re giving. You say that this technique is used in getting people to not only watch TV shows but fall in love and become big fans of them. How do they use this persuasive method in their shows? Michelle: Well, it’s in the marketing piece of it. And also it’s the environment that they’re creating. Actually, that’s probably a better way to say it. It’s in the, you know, when people are watching a television show or reading a book, you’re creating a world they want, you know, it’s, it’s entertainment. So, you have to use these same techniques, the same sort of persuasive techniques to persuade people. They’re living in this world with you. So that’s kind of how you’re doing it. And in this case, I guess at what I said before, is everything love and fear. I mean, obviously, you’re, in this case, if you do tap into fear based emotions like you tap into grief, like in something is sad. That’s not necessarily a bad thing because you’re allowed, you’re giving people a chance to feel their emotions. I mean, so many people walk around because they’re so numb because they don’t want to feel, grief or anger or shame or guilt or anything. So they are worried, and I get it, cause they don’t feel very good, but they’re a part of our human existence. So we need to feel them. And if we don’t feel them, if we try to stuff them down or run away from one, then they just build up in our bodies. They can cause all sorts of health problems. And not, to mention, they’ll stop us from feeling joy. We can’t cut off the fear-based emotions and not also cut off feeling love-based emotion. So feeling the joy, feeling the happiness, feeling the love. So we just, feel numb. So actually a lot of these shows they’re doing a, especially ones that do tap into like grief, like sad as that is probably a good one. Or even like a scary movie. They’re doing a real service to everyone because it’s giving you a safe place to fully experience your emotions and really feel them so that you don’t become numb. Tony: This is the Tony DUrso Show just the head. The chat continues with Michelle PW and Jonathan Robinson, Love Copywriter and The Love Coach, but first, it’s time for us to take a short break. See you back here in just a moment. Voice America Influencers, Channel be inspired. I think we’ve all bought software that’s unused to just sitting there. I’ve made that mistake a few times and don’t like to talk about lost money. Now, I am much smarter, and I have kept capterra to help me, capterra.com/tony capterra is the leading free online resource to help you find the best software solution for your business. With over 850,000 reviews of products from real software users, discover everything you need to make an informed decision. Search more than 700 specific categories of software. Everything from project management to email marketing, to yoga studio management software. No matter what kind of software your business needs capterra makes it easy to discover the right solution. Fast visit capterra.com/tony for free today to find the tools to make an informed software decision for your business capterra.com/tony Capterra that’s c a p t e r r a.com/tony Capterra software selection simplified. We don’t follow we lead. Join us the voice America Influencers channel You are listening to the Tony DUrso show with key influencers. We’d love to hear from you via email. Be sure to send questions and comments to Tony at Tony DUrso.com now back to Tony and his guests. Tony: All right, we’re back on the Tony DUrso Show. Today show is with Michele PW and Jonathan Robinson, Love Copywriter and The Love Coach. Michele is also a bestselling fiction writer. She’s published two psychological thrillers, suspense, mystery novels, has a three book series out and holds a double major in English and Communications from the University of Wisconsin Madison. All right, and now back to the chat with Michelle. I didn’t realize this at first when we talked about it. But love based persuasive method is not necessarily just being happy, happy and you’re going to love it. It is whatever engages in the emotion. And that could be fear. That could be anger, that could be grief and so forth correct. Michele: It’s more about you kind of holding the space for all and allowing other people to sort of feel whatever it is they’re feeling. So rather you trying to manipulate, I guess that’s really what the difference is. So it’s like with me with the love-based way, I’ve kind of look at it is you allow, you create, you create a container so people can feel safe feeling whatever it is they’re going to feel. So because the other thing is that you don’t necessarily know because like, at least fear based emotions are a part of life. And, the problem is when you use those fear-based emotions to manipulate people, buy, that’s where I think line, is kind of where I don’t, I personally obviously, I’m here to kind of educate and people can make their own decisions what they want to do, but I personally don’t like it when that’s happened because I feel it’s kind of like manipulating people in a moment of weakness for them to buy. And like I said, even from a business standpoint, and I get it, if you’re feeling, as a business owner you’re in a lot of fear and scarcity because you really need some sales in the door and you know, your program’s great and so you just want to get somebody in and be able to help them. And that’s all well and good. The problem is that when you use fear-based emotions and you kind of get people and manipulate people more that way as I said before, they tend not to stick, they’re the ones that tend to refund or tend to disappear because they’re not as committed because it wasn’t, they didn’t really sit with it and decide that they, and make that decision that they wanted to move forward or not. So none of this is easy by the way. But one of the things that I do like to say is that yeah, we’ll love based, it’s like if somebody feels, if somebody just experienced a loss, like let’s say their mother just died and they’re crying and you say to them, they’re there, it’s going to be okay. Well, I mean it’s not going to be okay. I mean, their mother died so, and we know that. But the person saying that to them. Like, you know, there is going to be, okay. You can stop crying is because the person cried is making them uncomfortable or comfortable. We are with our feelings where we could just sort of sit there and allow people to experience their feelings. That’s the power of this. Tony: I see and Michelle, what would you say are some memorable lines and what makes them memorable so that we can see more of this inaction. Michele: So with the memorable lines piece of it, that’s a little different. I mean, some of that is kind of in a cultural, standpoint. Like, you can’t handle the truth or show me the money. And some of that, the reason why this sort of caught on is because it’s really tapped into a sort of some common emotional experiences as well and, or common, shared experiences. Like, show me the money who doesn’t want to do that? That’s from Jerry, Jerry Maguire and, then, you can’t handle the truth from a few good men or, you know, I guess we’re not in Kansas anymore. Toto, that’s from the Wizard of Oz. And you know, that one sort of taps into, how we can suddenly wake up and be in a life situation that’s totally different. Because when you look at a lot of the things that show up in fiction, you know, there is a kind of a real-life counterpart to it. Like, look at the whole horror genre with vampires, because we all revolve run into energies, people who suck our energy dry, and they exhaust the undead zombies is big right now because he knows so many people are walking around numb and undead. So there is a lot of those if you look at what’s happening in fiction and there are reasons why we resonate so strongly with it because it is connected to our emotions. Tony: I appreciate you explaining that this is a really interesting subject and you’re an author of nonfiction and fiction as well. Can you tell us, first of all, let’s talk about some of your nonfiction books. I guess they’re all love based type of teaching books. Michele: Yes! So, I started with Love-Based Copywriting and I’ve got two of those and I’ve got Love-Based Online Marketing Love-Based Money and Mindset and Love Based Goals because the more I dug into it, the more I realized that, you know, really everything we’ve done is we’ve, we’ve built on a foundation of love or fear. And so I wanted to show people how if they wanted to build their lives and businesses on a foundation of love, they could. Tony: And if we are interested, of course, we are, we’re all interested. We want those love-based books. We can go to Michelle that’s, and I’ll spell it, M i c h e l e p w.com. One L in Michele pw.com. Can we see those books there? Michele: Yup. Those books there. And then there was also a link to the fiction books, um, which are psychological thrillers, mystery suspense books. Tony: And they’re bestselling. Tell us a little bit more about those. That’s very interesting. Michele: So one is bestselling and or one was on the best list. So that was the Stolen Twin. It was the first book that I did. And so what they are is that like the one I’m writing now, I’ve got four books published and two of them are part of a psychological thriller, mystery suspense series, but they have a little bit of romance in them. And so they try to, kind of mixed a lot of genres. So there’s a little something for everybody in those books. Tony: I love it. And Michelle, this is a very unique question I’m going to ask of an author of your stature. Are your books successful because you use the persuasive method in marketing to them, a love based persuasive method? Michele: Yes, absolutely. In fact, that’s one of the things that I’ve found. Like I just, I set up my very first ad on Facebook for fiction and um, and it’s getting a very, very good response. And I know that’s because I was able to set up the ad, I was able to set up the landing page and I know that that’s a big part of it is that I understand the idea of persuasion and how to write copy that’s persuading because everything’s different. I mean, it’s all marketing is marketing, but then you also have to be able to take it and make it unique based on whatever it is that you’re selling. Tony: Michele, we have so many marketers in the audience, authors, people that want to be an author, people that write copy or want to write better copy. People that have their own business and so forth. Teach us, teach us. We want to know this, we want it. We want to learn that success allowed faster. How can you teach us? Do we read your book? Do you have a training class? Tell us, more. Michele: Yes, the books are probably a great place to start. So the Love Base Copy, so they’re all on Amazon. And you can get them on Kindle or physical books or actually the nonfiction. You can also get on nook and iTunes. So they’re all over the place. And then I do have some courses as well that you can check out. And that’s at love-basedcopy.com so that’s got some more training programs it also has a link to my blog, so there’s a lot of free resources on my blog as well, which was love-based biz.com. Tony: All right, a couple of URLs here. So I want to make sure we know how to navigate. If we go to the first question if we go to Michelepw.com, can we see and access these other links? Michele: Yes, so that’s kind of the umbrella site. So if that’s the only site you remember, that’s fine because that’ll have links to directly to love base copy links to the book, links to all of that. So that was, that’s probably the best way to get started. Tony: This is the Tony DUrso show just the head the chat continues with Michele PW and Jonathan Robinson. Love Copywriter and the Love Coach. But first, it’s time for us to take a short break. See you back here in just a moment. 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Well, I hope a lot of people check out loved base copy because we need that to be more effective ticket our products and services out there. I’ve seen too many people start and fail or not do well and something like this. Would really help them a lot. We need you, Michele. Michele: Well thank you. I’m out here. I’m really excited and thank you so much for having me because one of the things I love to do is really spread the word about this cause I really think this is, this can be life-changing. I mean when I had the first book out, I can’t tell you how many people emailed me and said how much relief they felt and how I finally gave them something they had just been longing for. So I’m so excited to be spreading the word about this. Tony: Excellent. I love it. Once again, Michele PW, we talked about Love-Based Copywriting. That’s based B, a, s e d in case I don’t pronounce that right. Love. She’s a Love Based Copywriter. Her website is Michele PW.com that’s one l thank you so much. Michele loved it. Michele: Well thank you so much for having me. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Jonathan R. Robinson Tony: And now we have Jonathan Robinson joining us the love coach. Jonathan Robinson is a psychotherapist and bestselling author of 12 books. He’s made frequent appearances on Oprah, CNN, and good morning America. He teaches about love and relationships and does talks to fortune 500 companies such as Google, Microsoft and Apple. Here we go. Welcome to the show Jonathan. So great to have you on with us. Jonathan: Thank you, Tony. I’m looking forward to this. Tony: So am I. This is quite a subject, the love coach. Well, I can’t wait to find out about this and really get some good information out to our audience. But first things first before we go on Jonathan, how did it all start for you? What’s your backstory? Jonathan: Well, I was blessed to grow up in a very dysfunctional family in which everybody hated each other. And I say blessed because I started to see that being able to communicate and connect with people is like a survival skill. And so at the ripe old age of eleven(11), I started reading self-help books to figure out ways to have better relationships. Tony: I’m impressed and I think you said earlier off the air, you started writing self-help books at the ripe old age of eighteen (18) is that right. Jonathan: Yeah, I mostly wrote them for me, you know, to remind me of what worked and what doesn’t. But the first book I wrote that was published, I was probably about 28 years old and that got me on Oprah. So that was, that led to a successful career writing books. Tony: Yes. You’ve been on quite a few shows out there. I really am curious though, why, if that’s even the right question, Jonathan, why are you a love coach? What, what’s so unique? What makes this so special that you know about the subject so well? To write and be pretty much plastered all over the world about it? Jonathan: Well, mostly by figuring I didn’t know anything and that I would interview the best, most loving people on the planet. So for one of my books, I interviewed everybody from the late Mother Teresa to the Dalai Lama. You know, anybody you may have heard. I’m always asking them, what are your best advice or methods for helping us have more love in our life? Because I think having love and peace is more important than anything else, but most people don’t have a lot of it. So I was looking for how a somewhat lazy person like me could, get to a place where I was feeling love and feeling really good connections every day and, mostly I, I stole all these great methods from, from some of the most loving people on the planet. Tony: I like that very cool. On that. And your book is called, it’s called More Love, Less Conflict is the same as your website, morelovelessconflict.com. And there I’ve interviewed many coaches. There are people that know the subject or some facet of it. What makes your book and this approach different than any other book? Jonathan: Yeah, that’s a great question. I don’t like reading a whole lot. So what I learned to do is find the simplest methods that in under a minute could have profound impacts on a relationship or could help people reach a deeper level of intimacy. And most people don’t know these methods. And I find that, when I get stressed out, I don’t want to, I don’t remember a lot of stuff. So you know, if I can have like a fill in the blank method that involves saying three words and it works well that’s a keeper. So I put all those ideas in more love, less conflict book. Tony: Oh I can’t wait to find out some of these. I’m sure we have members of the audience here that just would love some help and example. But before we do that, I just want to give a little note that I just love that little video on your site. More love, less conflict is so cute. It is. So Darling, and it begs the question because this is about love, it’s about the relationship. If people are happy with someone or not necessarily looking for love, do you have something for them too, or is this only for people who want to have a better relationship? Jonathan: It’s really for anybody who wants more love. I mean there are two ways to do that. You can open up to the love inside yourself and you know, that’s more of the spiritual discipline, which I have methods for that. But you know, a lot of love comes from the people. In our lives, our family, friends, lovers, you know, how can you connect with them more deeply and in a certain way, the instructions for doing that are in the word intimacy (into me. see), so when you reveal stuff about yourself, it opens up the hearts of other people and soon you have a really beautiful connection. Tony: That’s very nice. I like that. And I understand that you’ve been married for a very long time as I, but it’s changed. It’s different out there. In fact, off here we talked about, I believe you’ve been together 20 years, I’ve been 26 you’re catching up there and you mentioned something about it being an anomaly today. It’s so, so true, Jonathan. And why do you think from your point of view, why is it an anomaly today? What is wrong that there’s, people don’t seem to get married as much or, and divorced even more often. Jonathan: Yeah. Well, you know, life is really stressful nowadays. You know, it’s moving fast. Everybody’s under a lot of stress. And most people have literally zero communication training and their entire life, you know, something that they do all the time. So most people don’t have these skills to deal with that amount of stress and therefore things go south. But I find that even an hour of information that you get in a book or a video or something can give you certain skills that almost make it look like you have a superpower. Because we learn how to communicate really well and in a way that leads to intimacy consistently. People are very attracted to that. And, my income and my life are filled with people who really appreciate me, not because I’m that great of a guy, but just because I communicate using certain methods are pretty easy to learn. Tony: All right, Jonathan, I liked that. Can we go into some methods that people can learn right now and give us some information about how and why that works? Jonathan: Sure. Well, let me start with a method that involves two words that you, my wife and I, early in our marriage, we used to argue a lot. And, we came upon a method that involves just saying two words and the last decade we have had zero arguments. So we went from an argument a week to zero arguments in 10 years. That’s pretty good. Tony: That’s phenomenal. Jonathan: Yeah, the method is very simple when either partner’s upset and you know that you’re kind of getting more and angrier or more frustrated. You can say the word yellow light. And what that signifies is that you have to take a two-minute break in silence before you say anything more. And once my wife and I started to take these two-minute breaks, if either of us said yellow light, we calmed down, we got more rational, we didn’t say hurtful stuff anymore and we were able to work things out. So that’s an example of how simple some of the stuff is. And I’ve had couples who say that they argued twice a week and the end all arguments just by this really simple method. Tony: Yellow light who would have thought very, very clever. It makes me think of when we’re driving. Sometimes they’re actually, I shouldn’t say the word sometimes too many times the drivers around us are texting. They’re seeing who likes them on Facebook, they’re looking down, they’re stopping at green lights, they’re going, you know, 20 miles an hour in a 45-mile hour zone. And it seems to be more and more prevalent. And when we’re driving, sometimes there’s a little bit of angst. Understandably so because of that. And when my wife, if she starts to get irritated by this, I try, if at all possible, just hold her hand. What are you going to do? We’re not gonna, we’re not going to push the other car out of the way. The person is texting. And I’ve seen up to four people in a car texting at the same time. It’s like, what are they talking to each other? Jonathan: Yeah. Little things like that holding hand selling, stay sane, yellow light. You know, one of my favorite methods, you know, I’m also a psychotherapist besides a coach and I see a lot of couples on the verge of divorce. I asked them, why are they getting a divorce? And they’ll often say little things like he burns my toast or they always forget to put sugar in my coffee. Tony: Sorry to interrupt. I rarely do it, but Jonathan, are you kidding? That’s a cause for divorce? Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. You know, because every day they feel like their partner is dismissing them. And, and when we feel that, when we feel underappreciated or not understood, it leads to a lot of anger and hurt. Tony: Nine months burn my toast that causes you to divorce. Wow. Jonathan: Where people want is understanding and empathy and they want to feel appreciated. So here’s a very simple method and we can try it out right now Tony. Tony: This is the Tony DUrso Show just the head the chat continues with Michele PW and Jonathan Robinson, Love Copywriter and The Love Coach. But first, it’s time for us to take a short break. See you back here in just a moment. We don’t follow. We lead. Join us the Voice America Influencers Channel. Hey, check out my other great interviews at tonydurso.com or using your Android or iPhone. Get the app at tonydursso.com/mobile. That’s Tonydurso.com/ mobile for the app. Thanks Would you like a lot of people checking out your sales page, your branding page, your podcast like a lot of us are just trying to do it all yourself? Are you taking webinars, seminars, and workshops to learn how to grow your social media and how to bring visitors to your site? Are you downloading free ebooks, buying books, buying classes, doing this and that? Just to learn how to get more sales, more people, more exposure, been there, done that. 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The vision map beat the odds for your business success. Get it free at Tony DUrso.com/vision and set up your own successful vision map. Tony d u r s o. com/ vision. This is the voice America Influencers Channels: Be inspired. You are listening to the Tony DUrso Show with key influencers. We’d love to hear from you via email. Be sure to send questions and comments to Tony at tonydurso.com now back to Tony and his guests. Tony: All right, we’re back on the Tony DUrso show today’s shows with Michelle PW and Jonathan Robinson. Love copywriter in the love coach. Jonathan says, quote, “Life is stressful, love shouldn’t beat the pace of modern life. Leave so little time to truly connect with our partners. Yet the need for good communication has never been greater. Most of us have had little to no training in how to best communicate in ways that foster deep trust and intimacy,” end quote. And now back to the chat with Jonathan. Jonathan: I’ve known you a total of 15 minutes and it’s, fill in the blank statement and it is a, something I noticed about you that I appreciate is____ so something I noticed about you. Tony, that I appreciate is that you’re really clear in your communication. You know, before the show you’re really clear, you’re clear on, on the podcast, you’re very much yourself and it’s very easy to feel comfortable with you because I know what to expect. And I know what you want and you’re communicating it. So that’s something I notice that I can really appreciate. Now, as I say that, I’m not fishing for compliments, but that is something I was already thinking. And by saying our appreciations, it helps people to feel really cared for and the best predictor of how happy our marriage is, is the number of appreciations couples give to each other. And that’s not rocket science, not that hard to do. Tony: Oh, then I think I’m overbalanced here because every time my wife does the cleaning of the house, I thank her. I thank her for the laundry. I thank her for any shopping that she does. I thank her for various other household things that she’s just taken on and assumed as her task and job in the house. And I’m always thanking her for it. I’m teasing that. I think it’s overbalanced, but I totally agree because when someone does something, they’re not necessarily looking for that compliment and being on a pedestal, but they like to know that it’s appreciated. Well, my wife cooks dinner. I don’t care what I’m always thanking her for giving me and cooking such a great meal to the point she says that I say that whether she burned the meal or not. And I tell you I would because I appreciate the fact that she cooked it, but she never burnt a meal anyways. But it’s that appreciation, that acknowledgment of, Hey, I see you, I recognize you. I appreciate this. It really does make people feel a lot better. I agree. Jonathan: Yeah! Yeah! It’s not rocket science, but you know it’s, I sometimes get caught up in work and forget to do that. So I actually don’t tell my wife this, Tony, but just between you and me, I have Siri on my iPhone reminding me to say an appreciation each day in case I forget. But you know, you say a lot of them, that’s why you’re married 26 years. I say a lot of them, that’s why I’m married 20 years happily, and is little things like that can, that can make a huge difference in how much love you have in your life. Tony: Well, you know, it’s very interesting cause I don’t do it for any accolades and I’ve never ever mentioned this ever before and I’m only speaking about it now because it’s very apropos to our conversation, but I truly appreciate, I mean, why is she spending all this time to cook me this great meal? It’s like I’m impressed and she does this all the time. It’s like, that is so cool. I never take it for granted. I’m, I can cook a little bit, not like her. I can make my own meal, but she feels it’s her job. She wants to do it and I just so appreciate it. But it’s, it’s very, it’s very genuine. I really truly do and I think that not to steal your thunder or take away, but to add to this interview, if people just did that, as we’re talking about and told each other truthfully, meaningfully, when they find something and they appreciate it, it boils down to the gratitude point of view. Be grateful for what you have and for what’s being done. Jonathan: Yeah. I’ll tell you a funny story about that. I knew that being grateful for the little things your partner does is, really helpful in relationships. So a friend of mine got back from India a few years ago and said that he got this magical mantra to help him feel overwhelming gratitude for his partner. And I asked him, Oh, tell me what it is? And he said, no, you’ll have to go and get directly from the guru. So I’m always looking for the best methods on earth. So I traveled 18,000 miles to India and traveled by rickshaw and I finally get to his Ostrow man. Wait in line for hours. I finally get a chance to talk to this guru. I say, what’s your magical mantra for feeling grateful towards your loved ones? And He Indian accent says, hi. Yes, my mantra is the most powerful mantra on earth. He leans in to whisper into my ear and he says, we’re never gonna possibly repeat these words. The mantra I give you are the words. Thank you. Tony: Oh my goodness. Jonathan: Look at him. I go, I go, that’s it. I traveled 18,000 miles. Thank you. That’s it. And he looks at me, he said, no, that’s it is the mantra you have been using. And that makes that person feel like they’re never enough. My Mantra is, thank you, not that’s it. That’s it. We’ll take you nowhere. Tony: Smart, guru. Jonathan: You have to say it from your heart. So every time Yo, your wife makes a meal for you, say thank you from your heart. Every time they clean your dishes, say thank you from your heart. Every time your children hug you say thank you from your heart and soon you’ll be filled with gratitude. It actually does work. Tony: Jonathan, I want to thank you right now deeply on behalf of the audience for assisting us so that we don’t have to travel 18,000 miles to go to India to learn. Thank you very much for sharing. That’s really cool. I liked that. And I know I say cool a lot because I think it’s one of the best words around. So I say that’s very cool and I’m just being a little silly. That’s just my Italian. Well, how about that? It’s showing the gratefulness. It’s not just being grateful because if a person is, you know, sometimes I think too many times actually people are like poker, poker players, you know, they hold back, they don’t want to say what cards are in their hands. They don’t want to communicate, they don’t want to share. And just seeing that, thank you. Getting it out of your world to their other world is indeed very powerful. Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there’s really great methods for everything, for gratitude, for working through problems, for ending arguments, for, negotiating things. But most people don’t know any of these methods. So their relationships with their kids their mate or even their coworkers all suffer. And that’s really why I wrote the More Love, Less Conflict book was to get these methods out to a wider audience. And I think, you know, we need more love in the world. Tony: Jonathan, would some people in the audience, maybe some are at the, at the brink, at the boiling point, the tipping point, maybe filing for divorce. What would you say to them to try? What’s the one piece of advice or technique aside from getting a hold of you at morelovelessconflict.com checking out your book. What could they apply today? Because your book may take a little while to come in the mail and they’ve got a burning issue right now. So let’s talk about how can we help some people Jonathan: Well on the morelovelessconflict.com website, I actually have a free download called the 12 questions of instant intimacy. And people can get that for free on the website. And when you ask people these questions and you listen to them, it pretty much hundred percent of the time leads to a deep, intimate, open, loving conversation. And these are questions you can use with your mate or a friend. And for people who want to deepen their relationship or having trouble, I would recommend that they ask these 12 questions and they’ll notice an immediate effect. But in general, I’d say that people need to work on feeling empathy and understanding their partner. I never have couples come in and say, Jonathan, we understand each other perfectly. That’s why we want a divorce. You know, I have the opposite happen all the time where they’re blaming each other and they’re both blaming each other and that goes nowhere. So when couples can learn to understand their partners immediately leads to a softening, open communication and more love and less conflict. Tony: Jonathan, I do believe you’ve given the overall most encompassing piece of information here. Understanding, you may have given it as a little bit of a parody or whatever little joke, but couples that understand each other don’t go and get divorced, Jonathan: Right, that never happens. You know the most common problem, the real, the only problem I see is that people don’t understand or they don’t have empathy for their partners. So when you do really understand why your partner feels the way they do and you feel empathy for that, that immediately allows them to want to understand you and feel empathy for your situation. And once people understand each other, solving problems usually takes about 25 seconds, but it might take 20 years to get to that place where people are actually listening to each other if they don’t have the right skills. Tony: I got you. And these 12 questions is something that a person who’s feeling like it’s the other person’s fault. If they go read that list, that will actually help open them up to what? What would be the end result? Okay, someone is having a very bad time with their spouse. They look at the 12 questions. Does that give them what that gives them something to think about before responding or reacting further? Jonathan: Well, like for example, one of the questions is when do you feel most loved? When people understand that it helps to open up the communication channels. So a lot of the questions that are geared towards being vulnerable and when there are shared vulnerability, there’s always intimacy. And what happens when things go wrong is that there’s just, there’s no vulnerability. There’s, just blame and blame never is helpful. Tony: I’ve seen a lot of that. It gets into this never ending going down the shoot spiral sort of thing. The rabbit hole with blame because blame, blame, blame. You’re right. It doesn’t really solve anything unless you say or look at what you could be responsible for. Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. Anytime I blame my wife, she’s never said, oh yeah, now I see what you’re talking about. Thank you for showing me. There is in my ways that don’t happen. No, but when you, reveal stuff about yourself that you can reveal in the 12 questions or when you say appreciation for when you take responsibility in very precise ways, it always leads to more intimacy and connection and ultimately that’s what we really want in life. Tony: I want to get my head around this one more time with that blame because you know why you were mentioning this. I was thinking of people, I’ve met, people that have argued, things that I’ve seen where it’s the blame, blame, blame, and what if a person is being blamed by their spouse or coworker this could be anywhere. What would be a great way to deal with that when you’re, you didn’t do this and you didn’t do that and you’re all wrong and Blah, blah, blah, blah. How can somebody deal with that? What’s your advice on that? Jonathan: Well, it’s a great question. When people are blaming, they’re very upset, so empathy is the thing that you want to give and understanding. So it might be saying, it sounds like you’re really upset and you felt really hurt by what happened and I’m really sorry that you’re upset. That will often be what the person needs to hear before they can hear what you have to say. But we’re not very good at giving empathy, so a lot of times that just goes into that blame cycle that people get stuck in. Tony: I like that. Thank you so much, Jonathan R. Robinson, The Love Coach, your website is morelovelessconflict.com. I love that name. Great chat we really touched upon a lot of great points that I think are if I can say alien society a little bit more these days that should really appreciate you giving us this. And if in closing you had one final piece of wisdom aside from reading your book and checking out the questions, or did we already have or do we ready get that? I was just looking if there was any particular closing comment on this subject. Jonathan: Well, you’ve heard it all before, but love yourself, love other people, and tell them what you love about them. You can’t go wrong doing that. Tony: I love it. Thank you. Once again, Jonathan R. Robinson, thank you so much for joining us. Jonathan: Thank you, Tony. Tony: And for my amazing audience. Thanks so much for listening. Remember, success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds be righteous. Join me on the next episode of the Tony.DUrso show. We hope you’ve enjoyed this week’s edition of the Tony DUrso Show with his key influencers. Be sure to tune in again next Friday at 4:00 PM Eastern time, 1:00 PM Pacific Time on the voice America Influencers Channel.