Are you ready for an open discussion with the best of the best and the best of what's next? Welcome to the Tony DUrso Show. Join in on a great conversation today with some of the world's great influencers as they showcase great advice and techniques that made them the game changers they are today. Now here's Tony DUrso.

Tony:

Welcome. I'm your host, Tony DUrso. I interview some of the most successful people in the world and I thank you for joining us. This show is dedicated to helping you turn your vision into reality, and here's a successful entrepreneur who provides insights and guidance you can use to move along your vision path. Listen to my shows at tonyD-U-R-S-O.com, or go to your favorite podcast platform such as Apple podcasts and search for Tony D-U-R-S-O. Later in our show, we're going to hear about earning a passive income from our sponsor Liquidity Card Solution®. ShipStation®. Are you an online seller? I'm giving 60 days free to help you get your orders out quickly and save on shipping. Listen for the special code just ahead. Harry’s® razors - I've been using them for years and we're giving you a trial set. I love their products. Get a five blade razor, lathering shave gel with aloe and a travel blade cover. I'll tell you how to get that free when we take a break. More details just ahead so please stay tuned. Today's show is learning to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli. Let's see what we can learn today. At the end of this interview, I'm going to do a summary recap of what we went over, so stay tuned for that. Currently in private practice, Dr. Ciaramicoli has been on the faculty of Harvard Medical School for several years, lecturer for the American Cancer Society, Chief Psychologist at Metrowest Medical Center, and director of the Metrowest Counseling Center and of the Alternative Medicine division of Metrowest Wellness Center in Framingham, Massachusetts. Here we go.

Tony:

Hi, Dr. Arthur. Welcome to the Tony DUrso Show. I am honored to have you on with us today.

Arthur:

Thank you very much, Tony. How are you?

Tony:

I'm great. And for the audience, this is Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli also known as Dr. Arturo Ciaramicoli if you're Italian.

Arthur:

If you're Italian.

Tony:

So we have both versions running and it's all right. I'm going to call you Arthur, just for simplicity here and congeniality on our show, and I want to say that I am really looking forward to talking about soul, which of course is something that everyone has, but maybe not everyone uses. And we're going to give our audience success squad some help with that today, but first things first, Arthur. Let's follow your journey to success. How did it all start for you? What's your back story?

Arthur:

Well, you know, Tony, my parents owned a furniture store in a blue collar town in Massachusetts, and I watched my father sell, so I grew up in a business atmosphere, but also I watched him as a leader. And, you know, he taught me many things in terms of how to be a leader, in terms of authenticity and integrity and telling the truth. And he believed that you could sell as long as you were being honest, and people would come back to you. And 30, 40 years later after - when I was a kid, I worked for my dad. I drove the truck and we delivered furniture - and people still come up to me today and say, you know what your father told me about the frame of this couch or this mattress or this dining room set, I can't believe I still have it. You know, my father was only five foot six. He was in the OSS. He had 14 jumps in enemy territory, parachuting in World War II, so he had been through a lot in his life, but he very much believed in authenticity and integrity. And he used to tell me that if you tell people the truth about the product, they'll come back, and I sort of made that a part of my character. It was part of my mom's character as well. Also, they were always taking in people from other countries. You know, if you were immigrant, my father would give away the furniture. He was a very good man, but not a very good businessman. So I learned the art of listening and listening very attentively to see what people wanted, and you can see why that proves very useful to me as a clinical psychologist, because obviously I need to listen to people and I need to listen to people very carefully.

Tony:

That's really interesting because we get a lot of being told what to do and doctors and so forth, not really listening because they think they know better so there's a difference. There's listening and then there's 'I know better so I'm just going to hear what you have to say because I already know what I'm going to do. I already have my diagnosis or whatever', which kind of what you see when you go into a general hospital these days. Doctors, they poke their head in the door, they take a look and then they they're out and they've already got it all figured out what medications to give you.

Arthur:

Yes, yes.

Tony:

It's the listening. That's really interesting, and we're going to go back and circle back to that, Arthur. But right before we do that, I'd like to know, how did you come about the vision for your current success?

Arthur:

Again, in terms of my dad, young people would come into the store all the time. In fact, my mother would get very upset because there'd be customers there and my father would be offering guidance to some teenagers in the back of the store. So he was always a helper. My mother actually was a great listener too, and they always had people coming to them so it was kind of natural for me. You know, I was in college and I was an undergraduate. And one of the deans who was fairly young saw me talking to a young woman who was troubled in the hallway. And he said, kid, come in here. And I went in his office and he said, you know, I see you day in and day out. You're always talking to somebody who looks like they have problems. You need to do this professionally. And he sort of guided me somewhat. I had, at that point changed my major to psychology but I grew up with that. I mean, I would listen to my father at the kitchen table talking to young people, and in fact, I hung around with a lot of kids that were older than me when I was in grammar school because they were in high school. But my father guided people to college. He guided people into business. So he was a person that people felt that they gained confidence from. He would tease out their potential. So I was learning something about how to tease people's potential out early in life. And in my practice, you know, people often come in and think that I'm going to point out what's wrong with them. And I often try to tell people, I'm not really as preoccupied with what's wrong with you as uncovering what's always been right with you that you can't see. It's teasing out that potential and I focus a lot in my work and certainly as a leader on helping people lessen the prejudices toward themselves and others, because we all grow up with a novel that we've written about ourselves based on who we were exposed to young in life and we have to rewrite that story. I think we have to edit that story and make it a nonfiction book. So I've seen so many people over time - in the corporate world and the educational world, in the athletic world as well - believe that they're not very talented for this reason or that reason. And I focus on using empathy, which is listening very carefully to what is being said and what is truthful and what is distorted reality, distorted views about oneself and distorted views of other people. And I learned that from my dad, I think very early, because he had a way of looking at people, really young people who didn't feel very confident and teasing out the potential that he knew was there, but they couldn't see themselves at the time.

Tony:

I love that. That is great. And I really like your dad. What a great point of view! Is this the start, the root of that purpose of helping others when you were in your school and helping people with their issues? Was this now forming into a passion to help people?

Arthur:

Yes. I think I always had the passion, Tony. I just didn't know exactly how to direct it, but when I was in college, I was a history major. I began as a history major and I was in a school in Connecticut and with my Massachusetts accent and a friend of mine who had a Brooklyn accent, we got sent to the speech clinic and I was playing football at the time, and I said to my friend, we're missing practice every day. We can't do this and I said, what are we going to do? And he said, well, we'll have to change our major to liberal arts. So I went to the registrar and we both went together and I said, well, what are the other options? And he said, well, this and that. And then he mentioned psychology. And I said, what's that? And he said, that's the study of human behavior. I said, I'll do that because I just sort of felt like that that seemed natural to me. And then my passion sort of took off at that point because I was able to be with other psychologists who were professors and learn more about what they were doing. As a young person, I did an internship in a prison with people who had murdered people. I was in a group where I worked with a group who 11 of the 12 people had actually committed homicide, had killed someone. So I learned a lot about destructive behavior, and I had also learned a lot about the background that they came from, that led them to the positions they're in. And I think, you know, in leadership today, we know that from credible studies, that there are toxic leaders, not only in the political world, but in the corporate world, in the business world. And what makes the difference between a toxic leader and a soulful leader? I was learning back then because I saw as a young person, people who had committed to a life of crime and trying to get ahead at all costs and not really living with integrity and not realizing that you can lead a successful business, you can lead a successful institution with what I call AIE leadership, you know, authenticity, integrity, and empathy. And why is that? Because over time, I learned that when you help people become happy, when you change their brain chemistry through the way you relate to them, they become more creative. They become more productive and profits increase, and many people in the corporate world don't realize that and also in the political world. When you lead with authenticity, integrity, and empathy, you create a brain change. You produce oxytocin in the brain of those people who are around you, and it has so many positive consequences when you are able to change a brain in that way. It makes people feel more high spirited. It makes people feel safer. They feel more creative. They feel more generous. Oxytocin is that kind of chemical that we can produce naturally when we're around people who know how to elicit it, and it creates a sense of calm and well-being. It's the opposite of cortisol, the stress hormone, which has so many damaging qualities that it produces. Cortisol, when you're in a relationship with a toxic leader, a toxic parent, a toxic person, we get stressed. When we're stressed, we produce cortisol. What does cortisol do? It produces negative thinking. It produces weight gain, inflammation, hair loss. It breaks down muscle tissue, causes flabbiness, depression. And interestingly, it actually causes memory loss. So you have people around you who can't perform as well as they could. They can't reach their potential because of what you're creating in them. You know, I always think that one nervous system talks to another. Our nervous systems talk to each other, and when we produce cortisol, we're defeating the purpose of creativity and productivity. When we produce oxytocin, the positive brain change, we're producing creativity and a sense of calm and ease so that people can speak freely to a leader. They're not afraid to speak to a leader and thus they're more creative and more productive.

Tony:

We're learning how to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arturo Ciaramicoli also known as Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli, and you can find him at balanceyoursuccess.com and you can check out his new book, The Soulful Leader: Success with Authenticity, Integrity and Empathy. This is the Tony DUrso Show where you can learn from the wisdom and success of others to help you move on your vision path. Just ahead, the chat continues to learn to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli. But first it's time for us to take a short break. See you back here in just a moment. A word from our sponsor - Liquidity Card Solution® - on earning a passive income. Nobody likes the guy who says, I told you so. The guy in 1991 who said to you, invest in the internet. It's going to be huge, or the guy in 1997, who said, come on, this is going to be big. They call it social media. And the guy in 2009, who said, I'm telling you, man, crypto is real. Now I'm not going to be that guy who says I told you so, but I am telling you that there is a 21 year old international company where you can become a global project partner, earning a passive income, doing exactly what you're doing at this moment. No selling, no recruiting clients, no administering a business after hours. Visit www.mypassiveincome.life. That's www.mypassiveincome.life. Don't let history repeat itself on this one. Earn a passive income. Now, listen again. That's www.mypasssiveincome.life. We're with you wherever Alexa and Google are - at home, in the car, on your smart TV and your connected devices. Hey Alexa! Hey Google! Play my favorite Voice America podcast on Tune In. It's just that easy, but make sure you actually mention the name of the podcast show to make it work. You're listening to the Tony DUrso Show with special VIP guests. Now back to Tony and his guest.

Tony:

All right, we're back on the Tony DUrso Show where you can learn from the wisdom and success of others to help you move on your vision path. Let's see what we can learn today. Today's show is learn to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli. At the end of this interview, I'll give you a summary of what I got out of this, and I'll share some pointers with you. Stay tuned for that. In addition to treating patients, Dr. Ciaramicoli has lectured at Harvard Health Services, Boston College Counseling Center, the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore as well as being a consultant to several major corporations in the Boston area. All right, and now back to the chat with Arthur.

Tony:

Arthur, this is really interesting stuff. Let's get into your vision path. I'm going to ask you some questions. You've given us the appetizer. You've talked about it. You've mentioned it; you've dropped a little bit on it, and I want to go a little bit more deep dive into some of these, and we're going to start from the top. What's the definition of soulful? What's your definition of soulful and why is that important for anyone such as a leader? Why should a leader be soulful? Kind of like two questions where you can just kind of take it from there.

Arthur:

Okay. Well, Tony, a soulful leader is a person who lives with purpose and expresses his desire to be of service. He or she is not primarily motivated by status or image, but has a natural interest in making the most of all the people they encounter. Soulful people lead with passion and they're intimately aware of the structure of their organization, their institution. They're interested in motivating from the bottom up, not from the top down. They know who cleans their office, who mows the lawn, who fixes their computers, who serves the food. They know the secretaries and the receptionist. They speak to everyone, and no person is seen as less valuable than anyone else. Soulful people lead balanced lives. They work with intensity and they play with abandonment. You know, they also know how to turn down the dial. They have what I call a dimmer switch, and they know how to turn down the dial and simply enjoy life. They have an inherent love of young people. They love to educate, to witness the blossoming of young talent, and they're the voice of reason in the face of conflict. They're not quick to react. They rather thoughtful contributors. They know how to listen, and they're generally interested in understanding not only those who are like them, but also those who on the surface seem different. They are known for finding common ground and they take in information from diverse sources. They expect to continue to gain information about themselves and others throughout their lives, and they're not wedded to one way of thinking, one way of being, or one way of leading. You know, they realize and they willingly accept in order to live a healthy high achieving life, they must adapt to change and they must have learned from all people. Soulful leaders, basically they live with an open heart and an open mind, and they love diversity. I accent this in the book and in my teaching because they realize that diverse people provide diverse ideas, which increases creativity and makes people learn more. We have a number of studies now that have been concluded that show when people are in a diverse group, people from either different countries, different points of view, different parts of the country, different ethnicities, different religions, learning becomes very exciting and marketing and business becomes very exciting because it's not like you're getting together 20 people from the same exact background. You're getting people who see the world with a wider view. They have more empathy because they're bringing new experiences to each other, which makes businesses more successful.

Tony:

That's amazing. And you've mentioned some of this before, but I want to do a deep dive on why? We always hear, be authentic, be authentic. Why is it so important to be authentic in business?

Arthur:

Well, authenticity attracts other people and it creates a sense of connection and security. It enhances importantly a sense of trust to negotiate and work together. Pretense does the opposite. Again, if people don't trust you, you are creating in their brain the release of the stress hormone cortisol, which makes people fear you, makes people not trust you, makes people not want to do business with you. If you're authentic and you are real, you create a sense of trust. You are actually creating a brain change that makes people feel safer, more secure, and more willing to negotiate with you because they believe in you. It's very much like what I was talking about earlier, Tony, when I watched my father selling as a young kid. He so believed in what he was selling. You know, he was five foot six. He would pick up a couch and show you that the structure of it, the wood. He would talk about the wood and the way the beveling was taking place. He believed in what he was selling. A few years ago, when I first came back to Massachusetts, I was consulting to the BOSE Corporation and the salesmen wanted me to teach them, you know, teach me how to use empathy so we can increase sales. At that time several years ago, the Wave radio was just coming out. This little thing that for $400 or $500 would produce a sound equal to these big, large speakers that people really didn't enjoy having in their living room. So I said, just tell the truth. Tell them it's the best in the business for the least price, because that's the truth. I was trying to get them to not sound so salesy, but just be authentic. Once people trust you, it's contagious and leaders who do this are contagious. It creates a contagious climate and empathic climate, and when you have an empathic climate, a number of studies in the business world have proven that organizations that have empathy that have a degree of empathy throughout all, from receptionist to vice president, to president, to CEO and so forth that those organizations, people want to come to work. They will even be studies that even show that they will, people will work for 10 to 50% less income to be in an environment like that, to get up in the morning and want to come to work, rather than feeling like they have to come to work out of an obligation to sustain their lives.

Tony:

I like that. Just tell the truth because that's what people want to hear., and that's who people want to do business with. Others that tell the truth. So simply said, and I wish we had more of that. Unfortunately, we have to teach this to people, but you and I, when we grew up, it was just called being honest.

Arthur:

Yes. Yes.

Tony:

And now here's something that I think I know, but maybe I don't. Is this for workaholics? What is performance addiction?

Arthur:

Performance addiction, Tony, is the belief that perfecting appearance and achieving status will bring love and respect. It's an irrational belief system that begins in one's family and it's reinforced by our culture because you know, our culture is so focused on status and image. And in recent years, we have focused so much on status and image that we have downgraded the importance of character and integrity. So performance addicts, they're always looking at the outcome of what they do. They don't always enjoy, or actually quite often they don't enjoy what they're doing. They're doing it because they believe it's going to bring them status. You know, I went out to Idaho not long ago for the Revelry Group. They bring together groups of CEOs and CFOs of major companies, and they asked me to come out and talk about soulful leadership. And at the end of the talk, this older man, I would guess that he was in his late seventies, he came up to me and he said, can I have a few minutes? And I said, yeah, so we went down the hall and got a coffee. And he said, you know, you've ruined my day. And I said, what do you mean? He said, I'm 76 years old. I own several companies. I'm a multimillionaire. I have two sons. They're both married. I have five grandchildren. I don't see my sons. Maybe once a year. They don't invite me to their homes. I don't really know my grandchildren. I'm divorced, I'm living alone. I always thought giving them more and making more was going to make us a coherent, close family. And what I've realized now in listening to you talk, I didn't lead that way. I led through fear and aggression. I threatened people. I made them afraid of me. I thought that was the way to lead. And yes, I had some success, but the truth is I don't have any close friends. And he said, is it too late for me? And I said, no, it's not too late for you, but you need to go and apologize to your sons. You need to tell them that you didn't intentionally want to make them feel estranged from you, but you thought giving them money, giving them trips, paying for fancy cars, sending them to private schools was going to replace the lack of love and time they had with you. And of course, now you know that that's not true.

Tony:

That is strong. Wow. I've seen people like that. Yeah. They're unfortunately, a bit lonely. No further comment on that. Well said. And now something that we hear and some people get confused. I've had different people explain it different ways. I'd love to hear your take. How is empathy different than sympathy?

Arthur:

Well Tony, sympathy rushes in to console. It's an immediate reaction based on identification with another person. For instance, I have a client who moved here not long ago to Massachusetts from California, and she came here and she was grieving because her dad had passed away relatively young. He was just 62, I think and she was very close to her dad. Very, very close to him so she was devastated. Then she heard that a woman in her neighborhood also lost her father, a woman that she had been introduced to, but she didn't know at all. So she put together a basket of flowers. She went and she got some food and she was bringing it down to this woman and she rang the doorbell and she said, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I know you must be devastated. I lost my father only a year ago and I just wanted to bring you something. You must be so distraught. And the woman looked at her and she said, you know, thank you very much for being so generous and kind, but my father left us when I was two years old. I've never seen my father. I know you right now more than I knew him, so I'm not really devastated. See, that was an example of sympathy rushing in based on identification. Empathy slows down the process. Empathy is the capacity to understand and respond to the unique experience of another person. So you don't assume just because they both lost their father that they had the same experience. In fact, they had a very different experience. Empathy is fact oriented. It's objective; it's truth oriented. It's slowing down processes enough so that you listen with empathy and you find out the truth, but you don't react quickly just based on identification, meaning that you had the same experiences I had so we must have experienced the same thing. No, that's not necessarily true.

Tony:

This is the Tony DUrso Show where you can learn from the wisdom and success of others to help you move on your vision path. Just ahead, the chat continues to learn to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli. But first it's time for us to take a short break. See you back here in just a moment. As folks adapt to this changing world, we're all going to be buying more stuff online than ever before. And if you're an eCommerce seller, are you ready to meet the demands of our new delivery culture? Be ready with ShipStation®. Why ShipStation®? When you're selling online, getting a lot of orders out fast can be tough. How do you keep track of who gets what, which shipping carrier should you use, are you getting the best rates? That's why you need ShipStation®. It's the fastest, easiest, and most affordable way to manage and ship your orders. Just a few clicks and you'll be managing your orders, printing out labels and getting your product to customers like me. ShipStation® makes it easy. My family buys a lot online, a lot! Who doesn't these days, right? I love it when my vendors use ShipStation®, because I then know I'm getting the lowest cost shipping or even no cost where possible. One time is not a big deal perhaps, but when your family is buying more and more online, those shipping costs add up and up and up, and in today's economy, we all want the prices to go down and down and down. So this is why ShipStation® is so important to me, and it should be to you and anyone who sells online. ShipStation® helps online sellers of any size get orders out quickly, save money on shipping costs and keep customers happy like me. No matter where you're selling - Amazon, Etsy, your own website - ShipStation® brings all your orders into one simple interface, and you can even manage them from your phone. No wonder ShipStation® is the number one choice of online sellers. You'll ship more in less time with the best rates available. And right now the Tony DUrso Show listeners can try ShipStation® free for 60 days when you use offer code T-O-N-Y. Make sure your business is ready to meet the demands of delivery culture. Get started at shipstation.com today. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in Tony T-O-N-Y. That's shipstation.com, then enter code T-O-N-Y Let's spell that. ShipStation.com. Enter code T-O-N-Y. shipstation.com. Make ship happen. Okay, guys, check it out and tell me how much you love it. You're listening to the Tony DUrso Show with special VIP guests. Now back to Tony and his guest.

Tony:

All right, we're back on the Tony DUrso Show where you can learn from the wisdom and success of others to help you move on your vision path. Let's see what we can learn today. Today's show is learn to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli. At the end of this interview, I'll give you a summary of what I got out of this, and I'll share some pointers with you. Stay tuned for that. All right, and now back to the chat with Arthur. And so we feel for the person, but it's not necessarily that we're crying with the person. We're not having that harmonic sympathy, but we understand what they're going through, whatever that could be.

Arthur:

Yes, we have a sense of what it is, but unless we slow down our response and listen, we don't really know if it's similar. One of my clients, I have three leadership and communication groups that have been ongoing for several years. And I added a woman who was going through a divorce. And when she came in, one of the women asked her, gee, you know, Beverly, why are you here? And she said, well, I'm going through a divorce. And immediately she interrupted her. And she said, I went through a divorce last year. You've got to get a hardnosed attorney. I have names. I had someone in Boston. Your husband, they try to rip you off. You really need to know what you're doing. And one of the fellows in the group was smiling. And I said, Roy, why are you smiling? And he said, this woman has been here about two and a half minutes, and we're already telling her she needs a high powered attorney. We don't even know why she's getting a divorce. That was empathy. So then he asked her. He said, Marie, why? Why? She said my husband and I, I was pregnant when I was a senior in high school. We got married because we felt we had to. We have a wonderful son. He's married with children, but you know, I'm in my late fifties. My husband and I - and he is a wonderful person - but we don't even know what it is to be in love. We were together when we were 17 and we want the opportunity to see if we can find what every human being probably longs for. My husband and I, we don't need high powered attorneys. We've worked it out all ourselves already. We just need someone to help us put the document together so we can bring it to the court. We don't need an arbitrator. We don't. It's pretty simple with us and we will remain good friends. We've always remained good friends, but we've never been in love so I don't need a high powered attorney.

Tony:

What a difference, huh?

Arthur:

Well, the first person's reacting sympathetically, meaning, Oh, you're divorced? I got a divorce. Mine was horrible. Yours must be horrible. No. And that's the way we listen in the business, and sometimes as you said earlier in the medical world. You know, I have more physicians in my practice today, Tony than I've had in 35 years. Why is that? Because they're so pressured by the HMOs and they're all making a little less than they used to make. And so they're forced to go into these groups where they get a salary. I have a young rheumatologist from a nearby state who left his practice because he was offered a salary of $150,000 a year. And they said, we'll pay for your receptionist. We'll pay your malpractice. We'll pay your nurse. We'll give you an office and we'll do your billing. How's that? He said, Oh, that's great. Then after the first quarter, the CFO met with him and said, you know, you're not making your number. And he said, what? You're not making your number. You're not seeing enough patients. You only have 7 to 11 minutes to see each patient. These young doctors literally are seeing 50 plus patients a day to make their number.

Tony:

Horrible! You can't diagnose and help somebody with that though. It's just pushing pills.

Arthur:

Yes. So you go in to talk, they are typing on the computer while you're behind them. They're not even making eye contact because they're trying to cut down the time so they can see more people. That's not empathy.

Tony:

And there's no love there, which is the next question. We talked about love in a way with parents, but love in a corporate environment, in a leadership environment? How does that fit to really understand what's going on with your people? Can there be that genuine, heartfelt feeling and camaraderie for them?

Arthur:

Yes, there can be. As I said earlier, when you lead with authenticity, integrity, and empathy, you create a brain change. You make people literally be happy. Happy people are more creative. Happy people are more productive; profits go up. It's been proven that higher empathic organizations make more money and people are happier, and it's contagious in terms of the spirit of the organization. So you can feel close to other people. You can feel connected to other people, but you know, a lot of leaders like the fellow that I told you about before, the older fellow, they lead through fear and aggression. We see that in politics today, leading through fear and aggression. It makes people tense. They may stay with you for a while, but they won't stay with you for long and they don't respect you, and in your absence, they will undermine you because they feel demeaned by you. They feel humiliated by you. When you lead in this certain way, when you're truly a soulful leader, you make that brain change that creates a spirited atmosphere that naturally allows for productivity, financial and market results to rise immediately.

Tony:

You know, while you were saying this, something came to mind in terms of leaders. I've been in corporate America so I've had over 200 people that I've managed and the world has changed first of all, Arthur, but there is a suspicion - let's put it that way - and a distrust or mistrust on someone that's friendly. I'm the Italian, the old Italian school. I like being friendly and some people think I'm after their wife or something crazy or I don't know. To me, I'm just being friendly. Now I'm not talking about touching anyone. I'm just effusive by nature because perhaps I'm Italian. I love people, perhaps. That's why, you know, my podcasting is doing so well. I enjoy people. I enjoy learning about people, but when you're a leader running a corporation and I hate to generalize, I don't usually, but let's say the more younger millennials, whatever, it's suspicious, like why are you being so nice and so friendly? How can a leader be nice and friendly, but yet? Where do you draw the line?

Arthur:

Well, when you truly are leading soulfully with empathy, you read situations accurately. I led a department. I worked in a hospital for 25 years. I had my own department. I used to call people in who weren't performing and weren't acting appropriately, and it amazed me. They were MDs and PhDs and I'd call them in and I'd say, you know, you come in Tony at nine o'clock every day and the rest of us are here at eight. You come in quarter of nine, 9:15, 9:30. You can't keep doing this. And I also got a letter from a patient saying, you're taking phone calls while you're supposed to be listening to them and doing therapy. You can't do that either. And then the person would continue to do it and I call them in again and I say, you know, when I let you go, I'm not letting you go. You're firing yourself. I'm trying to give you an opportunity, but you can't act special and entitled here. It doesn't work. We don't care if you have a PhD or an MD or from a famous university. You have to treat people equally here. And if you don't, I'm going to have to let you go. I did and I didn't like it, but when people would come in and say, you're firing me, I'd say, no, no, no, no. I'm not firing you. You fired you. You have been given this warning. We have had this conversation two or three times. I'm not letting you go. You made that decision by your behavior.

Tony:

Good answer, good answer.

Arthur:

So a soulful leader leads by giving information. Look, this is what you're doing. You can't do that anymore here.

Tony:

Earlier we talked a bit about listening and I want to go into how to listen in terms of where do you draw the line? You have got to talk at some point, so listening is good. Is it a balance? Is it a 50/50? How does the leader balance that?

Arthur:

Well, a soulful leader listens empathically, and then he or she gives feedback because it is a reciprocal process. The interesting thing about empathy is that we know now through functional MRIs, I wrote in 2000 called the power of empathy. It's just going to be published in Korea. It was published in China last month and it's interesting to me that these countries are interested in empathy. The book was written 20 years ago, but I think they realize now that empathic children, empathic adults and empathic societies tend to have more agreeableness. They tend to get along better. They tend to be less polarized and more productive and happier. We know that through credible research as well. So soulful leaders will draw the limit when they need to. Empathy teaches us who to get close to and who to remain distant from. So we see beyond the surface. So a soulful leader, you know that that person, even though they're being friendly and warm, just like you are, that person has also showed that they can set limits when people act inappropriately.

Tony:

Arthur, you mentioned something somewhere in your material that I didn't understand it right away, and I'd love to ask you how it pertains to the soulful leader. I believe you call it image love?

Arthur:

Yes, image love is based on superficial attraction to appearance and status. True love is based on loving a person's character, knowing the other in depth. Performance addicts often choose people according to appearance and status, and they're constantly comparing and contrasting themselves and their partner to others. They find it easy to fall in love, like the binding and blinding effect of early sexual interactions. Those early phases of a relationship create an illusion, an image of love. But what happens is that the performance addict essentially has tremendous difficulty loving, maintaining love because they base their own lovability on their daily performance. And unfortunately they expect the same of their partner and they drive their partner and their kids crazy because they're very perfectionistic. True love is based on knowing the heart and soul of another person, and you can't do that without empathy.

Tony:

This is the Tony DUrso Show where you can learn from the wisdom and success of others to help you move on your vision path. Just ahead, the chat continues to learn to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli. But first it's time for us to take a short break. See you back here in just a moment.

Tony:

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Arthur:

You know, I had a case not long ago, Tony, where this couple came from California and the fellow was the CFO, fairly affluent in a major company in California. He divorced and he married one of the younger women who was a receptionist in the company and he had been let go. It was a long story, but he let go. And he came here to Massachusetts, to Boston and he was going to be the CFO for a startup. Anyway, after 18 months, the startup failed, and then they came from marital therapy. So she calls me and she says, I really need to talk with you. Can you meet with both of us? I don't think I want to be married anymore. And I said, okay. So they come in and I asked her in his presence. He was I think 56, she was 38 and no children. And I said to her, you mentioned on the phone that you're thinking of separating. She said, well, when I met my husband, he was giving talks in front of 2000, 3000 people. He was in a three-piece suit and he was so impressive. And now I come home and he's in sweat pants online looking for jobs on LinkedIn. I just can't take it. Now that was image love. Did she ever really love him? No. She never really loved him. That's image love. She loved the status. She loved the image, but she didn't love the person. She didn't even know the person. The guy was doing everything he could to get a job. But you know, at his level, at his age, he made a lot of money, not so easy to just transition, but it showed that when she saw him in a sweat suit looking for a job on LinkedIn, it became different. It was never true. Love to begin with.

Tony:

And one last thing on soulful listening. We know that and we understand that it creates that trust, that rapport, because you are really listening, you know. You're haven't already diagnosed me and I'm not talking about doctors. It could be anywhere. It could be in business. Like you already know where the person's at, you don't give them the time of day. When the person's listening, you feel that warmth, that camaraderie. But one of the points you've mentioned is it creates generosity.

Arthur:

Yes.

Tony:

Can you elaborate that?

Arthur:

Soulful listening produces the release of the near miracle neurotransmitter oxytocin. It's called the love hormone. It also is called the connecting hormone. It creates trust and a willingness to connect. What's the effect of having oxytocin in your system? It reduces anxiety and it reduces the stress level cortisol in your system. It actually has been proven to help you live longer. It aids in recovery from illness and injury. It promotes a sense of calm and well-being and it increases generosity and empathy. It protects against heart disease. It modulates inflammation. Interesting, it reduces craving for addictive substances. You know, people have a little spray of oxytocin in their noses actually don't desire sugary substances, fat substances. They actually have better diets. It's been proven that fathers who have trouble bonding with their babies, if you spray a little oxytocin in their noses, they bond with the baby more easily. It makes you want to connect because it increases trust in the other person. And it decreases fear and it creates security as I'd mentioned before. It makes you open to negotiate. It makes you open for love. It makes you open for connection. So it truly is a near miracle neurotransmitter that is produced when you listen soulfully. The giving and receiving of empathy, mutual empathy creates that in relationship. It may sound like it only belongs in personal relationship, but think what it does in the corporate world, in the business world, you actually believe like people believed in my dad when he was selling. He's not lying to me. He's telling me the truth. So I'm going to come back. I'm going to refer other people to this person.

Tony:

It's absolutely amazing, Arthur. Soulful listening creates so much good. We just need more of this. So more power to you, and this is just really good that you're sitting and taking the time to explain this to us. Really, really appreciate it. And now that this book is out, what are you looking to accomplish in the next few years?

Arthur:

Well, I have actually a new book coming out, Tony. It's called The Triumph of Diversity: Rejoice in and Benefit from the Interconnectedness of Humankind. It focuses on the increased rates of prejudice and hate crimes in our society. I talk about the origin of prejudice and hate, the tremendous increase in anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, discrimination against LBGTQ people, and discrimination against women as well. I also provide a formula to show how to reduce prejudice against oneself and other people. So it is the most important book I've ever written given what's happening in our society right now. We have the highest rates of hate crimes that we have ever had in our history in the last two years. It breaks my heart to see this happening, and that's why I wrote it. Actually, that's why I've written The Soulful Leader, but also The Triumph of Diversity is the sequel to this book, which is extremely important to me because I know we have to lessen the rates of prejudice, not only toward others, but toward ourselves as well.

Tony:

Arturo, that is so needed. I would love to have you back later on another time and go over that because not only does the world need it, but our entrepreneurs, our solopreneurs, business owners, we all need to know that and to better be able to deal with that and bring back goodwill. We really do. So I would love to do something on that.

Arthur:

I would love to come back and talk about it, Tony. That would be a great opportunity to have a discussion with you about such an important topic.

Tony:

Very good. And Arthur, are there any personal habits that contribute to your vision success? You've been all over the news, all over the media. You're a multi-author. You've done so much. What are your personal habits that help you stay so successful?

Arthur:

Well, Tony, probably one of the most important things is I get up at six o'clock every morning and I exercise, and I have throughout my life. I believe self-care is critically important to leading a balanced life because when we exercise and we protect our immune systems and we increase brain chemistry in a positive way, and I do it every morning, it puts us in a place to reduce stress. And we know that when we get more blood flow to the brain, we're smarter, we're less stressed and we're more able to conduct ourselves in a calm way. One of the other aspects of self-care certainly is relationships. I mean, I've been married, it'll be 40 years this May. We have two adult children who are married and we have two grandchildren. Family is extremely important to me. You know growing up Italian, I'm sure that it's the connection to other people that are close, and I think particularly in the second half of life, we realize that it's more important who we are, what our character is than what we've attained and how our resume reads. There are people whose resumes read wonderful, but they come and see me every week cause they're miserable because they don't know how to love and connect with other people, and they particularly don't know how to maintain intimacy. So that's extremely important to me.

Tony:

Amazing. We definitely need more of that. And last but not least, I'd love to know. Do you have any great resources to share with our audience success squad?

Arthur:

Well, I think if you go to my website balance your success, there are several articles and blogs and references to books that may be helpful to people. I always include a long list of books that I'm reading or I have read that I think are very useful at the back of each of my books, as in The Soulful Leader. There's a long list of books that people would find useful, I think.

Tony:

Once again, we learned how to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arturo Ciaramicoli, also known Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli, and you can find him at www.balanceyoursuccess.com. Your is Y-O-U-R. www.balanceyoursuccess.com and get a copy of his book right there on the homepage, The Soulful Leader: Success with Authenticity, Integrity and Empathy. Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli, you've done so well. You've given us such great information. I just want to thank you for just this amazing download you've given us on this show.

Arthur:

Well, thank you very much, Tony. Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it very, very much and I hope we get to talk again.

Tony:

Hey, success squad. Thanks for hanging out with me while I featured an elite entrepreneur who took his vision to reality. I hope this was this inspiring for you as it was for me to do this interview. I learned so much about empathy, sympathy, and this is just very, very refreshing. The insights are so valuable. So how did you like it? Learn to be a soulful leader with Dr. Arthur Ciaramicoli. We see right away that Arthur had a strong upbringing in integrity by his father, who was a very unique businessman in always treating his customers properly and telling them the truth. His dad's instructions carried him forth throughout life and being a leader and being authentic. One lesson he drilled into him - if you tell people the truth about your product, they'll come back. Very wise and very true indeed! I'm equally impressed at what seems to be the family tradition of helping others with their troubles, and not focusing on what is wrong with the person, but instead teasing out the potential of the person. I think so many of us can relate to this and would have loved to have them in our neighborhood to help us and family during tough times. But as this is a show about entrepreneur growth, can you see how showing care to customers and people alike helped grow the family business? I can imagine they had a great reputation and that of course brought much more sales along with great word of mouth promotion. Here's someone who's taken empathy to a whole new level, I think. He helps people brush away their distorted views about themselves and uncovers what is right with them to bring out their potential. This includes removing prejudices about themselves and others. I can see that as the making for a very successful entrepreneur. I love this interview. The part where he talks about a toxic leader, as opposed to a soulful leader. Wow! You know, I can't tell you how many toxic leaders I've worked with in my day. Perhaps that helped train me, I'm sure, but it never made good for long-term business. And it took me time to get rid of those bad habits myself. I'm so glad to have such a refreshing point of view here by Arthur. We need more people like him to help all entrepreneurs. This is great. Do you know anyone who feels they must get ahead at all costs, no matter what it takes? The flip side to that is living with integrity. Arthur says a person could lead basically any size organization, and that goes for countries too. Why not? You can lead any size group with integrity, empathy, and authenticity. I just love this. When you help people become happy, they become more creative. They become more productive. And guess what? Profits increase. Oh, there's so much more to comment on. There's so much more I got out of this interview. What did you get? I'd love to know how you use this information to help you in your business or career. Okay, guys, now grab hold of your vision. Decide you're either going to start something or take it to the next level. You have to decide first. It always starts with a decision and you can get my Vision Map to help you along the process. The free eBook is at TonyD-U-R-S-O.com You can pick up the audio version and the training class too. Highly recommended! I created my empire in just a few years. That's all it took. I had the Vision Map as my guide. I wrote it up for you. You can do it now also. Let's help you move on your journey to success. Hey, and if you have any Apple device or access to Apple podcasts, would you please look up my name, Tony D-U-R-S-O and subscribe to my show. A kind review there will get you tremendous appreciation back in return. Thanks and remember - just take action. Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode of the Tony DUrso Show. We hope you've enjoyed this week's edition of the Tony DUrso Show with his key influencers. Be sure to tune in again next Friday at 5:00 PM Eastern time, 2:00 PM. Pacific time on the Voice America INFLUENCERS channel.