INTRO
TONY: Welcome back to the podcast. Now, let me ask you something. Are you trying to grow something big right now, such as a business, a brand, a movement? If so, then you know the grind. You know the long hours, the self-doubt, the juggling act of strategy, funding, partnerships, plain old grit. And did I say long hours? Extra long hours? Sometimes.
If you're an entrepreneur with a bold vision, this episode is going to hit home because today's guest didn't just build something big—he's building something global. John Gill is the president of the World Pickleball Association. He's a driving force behind the fastest growing sport in the world and its path toward Olympic recognition.
But here's the thing—John's success story started before pickleball took off. I've had him on the show a few times and he's grown like crazy. He's a world champion martial artist with over forty-five major titles, including twenty-eight World Championships. He's an eighth Dan black belt Grandmaster in Hapkido and a seventh Dan master in Taekwondo. John has taught self-defense worldwide. He's opened the first women's only Hapkido class. He's worked with the Australian government on violence prevention programs.

And it's not just discipline, guys. John is vision in action. In this conversation, we're going to explore how John took that same discipline, focus, and championship mindset and applied it to growing a sport into a worldwide movement. I'm sure you've heard of pickleball, and if you haven't, whether you have or not, check this out because we're going to explore what you can learn from John's journey to fuel your own. And if you've ever wondered how to turn passion into an empire, or how to position yourself at the forefront of a booming industry, stick around. Let's begin. Let's bring him on.

INTERVIEW – PART 1 (THE JOURNEY FROM MARTIAL ARTS TO PICKLEBALL)

TONY: Hi, John. Welcome to the Tony D'Urso Show.
JOHN: G'day, Tony. How are you, mate?
TONY: John, very happy to have you on again. We've done a couple of episodes over the past decade of my podcasting, and today it's something very different. We didn't know in our last episodes we talked about your martial arts, your rise to fame and world dominance, and now we're talking about pickleball. And this title is appropriately named From Passion to Powerplay. I want to get into it. And as we have some new viewers and listeners here, can you kind of tell us how did it all start for you, John? What's your backstory?

JOHN: Well, Tony, as you know, it's with tennis and martial arts—my big passions for over forty years, obviously in Australia. Originally I was born in Sydney, Australia, and sporting sports has been my whole life, starting with rugby, then cricket. And then I hurt my knee in rugby at fourteen and my auntie said, "Come and play tennis. It's a much safer game." And that was it. I got from—I started playing tennis big time from fourteen, fifteen and got right into it and ended up playing a lot of tournaments, teaching, competing. It's just been a fantastic journey with tennis.
And then of course, martial arts. At eleven, I did judo for a couple of years. And then I was focusing on obviously a hip and knee, and then I was focusing on the tennis when that recovered. And then at eighteen, once I got my driver's license and ran around and tried different martial arts—karate, kickboxing, taekwondo, a whole bunch of different ones—I settled on Taekwondo originally with Graham O'Donnell, great instructor there.

And then I found, after that, Grandmaster Seung Soo Lee with Hapkido and Taekwondo—World Taekwondo Federation and Hapkido and Taekwondo Jidokwan. He's been running in Australia since the mid-seventies and that was amazing. I was just lucky that Grandmaster Seung Soo Lee made Sydney, Australia his home and I managed to get direct private lessons as well as group lessons and seminars from him. And it's been an amazing journey ever since, teaching under him with Hapkido, Taekwondo, Jidokwan.

And as you mentioned, I was eighth Dan—just to make it clear—eighth Dan black belt in Hapkido when I was in Australia last time. And now I'm going back again to do my eighth Dan Taekwondo grading as well as put on pickleball tournaments.
So that's how—now pickleball happened after coming to America from nineteen ninety-eight, competing in the International Martial Arts Council under Grandmaster Standup's World Championships pretty much every year, and other events as well. American Black Belt Championships started in nineteen ninety-eight as well, and obviously doing really well and kept winning, particularly the self-defense events and some other events as well. But it's been just so much fun. And that's how I met my wife, Victoria.

TONY: Yes, John, I've known you for ten years now. I met you before my wife and I met you at an event just when I was starting with podcasting. And I met your lovely wife. And I'm really curious. You're so successful in martial arts. You've got so many titles. I mean, it's just, it's mind-boggling how many titles you have. And you went into pickleball. And I'm curious, what about that transition into pickleball? It's booming worldwide now. And I'm wondering because it used to be a casual backyard sport. So I'm curious, is that what brought you into pickleball? Because it was just this normal thing you do in the backyard, right? So now you went from this superstar—and you still are a superstar in martial arts—but you're like, oh, I like this. I want to get into this. I'm just curious how that all happened.

JOHN: Well, it's obviously related to tennis as well, which is amazing. So what basically happened is once we got married in twenty seventeen—with Victoria in twenty sixteen, got married in twenty seventeen—back to Australia. So some business there. Well, back and forth of course. But officially we moved to Australia, to America with the dog as well, you know, named after Hapkido. She's in the other room. Hope she doesn't bark, by the way. I've had to put her away. If she does, apologies in advance. But she's a good guard dog, that's for sure.
But yeah. So that's what happened—January twenty-twenty. We officially moved just before Covid hit, and I was meant to be teaching at a Beverly Hills Karate Academy, which I'd been working, negotiating with and talking to Emil Farkas for many years. Very famous, teaching out of Beverly Hills up there and using some of his space to work there as well. And we were going to do some seminars together and things like that. And he's been in the film industry as well. He's a great author. But unfortunately Covid hit. So therefore indoor sports and gyms—that was it. Of course, we all know what happened there.
So I just threw myself—a friend said, Bobby Frederick, my mate who I'd known for a long time as well, said, "Yeah, get into pickleball. You know, it's so much fun." And I said, "Oh, great." Of course, tennis, it's related to tennis. Same but different kind of thing. But the strokes and hitting the ball—and I took to it like a fish to water. Just, that's it. And I just loved it. It was just amazing. Since that time I've met so many great people.

And so I just started playing out of Orange County at Seal Beach mainly, and then met my mate Ed and a bunch of all the other guys. We just kept playing and playing and playing. There was a period during Covid we couldn't, we weren't allowed to play. But ironically, that's when people took it up. People would draw courts in their driveways or their cul-de-sacs and just start hitting this Wiffle ball around with the paddle and it became reasonably well known.
Even though it was invented in nineteen sixty-five, it was still well known through the PPA tour. They started telecasting the events, and it was kind of known originally as kind of like, well, the old person's sport. Not anymore, that's for sure. But, you know, maybe the seniors playing, a little bit less running, a lot less running than tennis, a little bit easier on the body.
Once the Pro Tour came on and started really getting into it, then it started going viral on the internet as well. Now, I think that it didn't go viral before that because there were a lot of older people playing, and they're not into the internet so much and don't put their matches on there and things like that. But once the young ones started getting going and the PPA tour and then the APP Tour, then yeah, that's when it became telecast and started people seeing it and then seeing people at parks and driveways and driving past people in the street, in the quiet streets, of course, playing it. And they thought, what's that?
And it's funny, I call it a fun game with a funny name. Just for the people watching as well—pickleball. I mean, it could have been called paddle ball or something, but paddle tennis was already invented anyway. But they called it pickleball after the pickle boat races, which are a hybrid of crews back in the mid-sixties there of Bainbridge Island and Seattle. And they were called leftovers or something—the pickle boat guys were leftovers, like hybrid crews, oarsmen and different things. And being a hybrid sport, they thought of the word pickleball after pickle boat races because it was a hybrid of tennis and basically ping pong on a badminton-sized court. And then that's it. That's how it started to develop.

And it's just exploding. And particularly since Covid, it's really exploded. It was USA's fastest growing sport, and if it was USA's fastest growing sport, then it became Australia's fastest growing sport. Now it's the world's fastest growing sport. A lot of padel actually. And other games as well. Padel, padel. But that's a bit more expensive to put together. That's the glass cages where they put the glass walls in, and that's a mixture of squash and tennis where they hit off the wall. That's a fun game too.
And of course, tennis is still extremely popular and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's still, you know, an amazing game as well. But there's just room for more of these new games and particularly games like pickleball, a sport like pickleball, which is so accessible to everybody—grandchildren playing grandpa and grandma and mum and dads. And it's just amazing. The whole family can play together. I always had an expression—the family that plays together stays together, you know, brings people together, Tony. It's amazing. It's just the most amazing sport ever invented. And it's just growing and growing.

SPONSOR BREAK – SHOPIFY
TONY: You know, one of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is that you don't need permission to build something big. John proves that when you combine passion, purpose, and persistence, you can turn even the unlikeliest idea, like backyard pickleball, into a global force on the edge of Olympic history.
And that brings me to this. Because if you've got a dream, if you've got a product or service or just an idea bouncing around in your head, every successful entrepreneur I've interviewed on this show started out exactly where you may be right now—with an idea, a dream, and plenty of questions. How do I turn this into something real? How do I build a professional online presence? And how do I actually reach the people who need what I offer?
That's where Shopify comes in. It's the platform built to launch, grow, and scale with zero guesswork and total freedom, just like John did with pickleball. Whether you're selling a digital product, physical goods, or a brand new business model, Shopify gives you everything you need to start, grow, and scale all in one place.
Shopify is the commerce platform powering millions of businesses worldwide, handling ten percent of all e-commerce in the US, including household names like Mattel and Gymshark, as well as countless entrepreneurs just getting started. Exactly like you.

Worried you can't design a website? No problem. Shopify has stunning ready-to-go templates that perfectly match your brand's style. No design experience needed. A little extra help along the way? Shopify has powerful AI tools created specifically for commerce, helping you enhance product images, write compelling product descriptions, and even generate discount codes effortlessly.

Concerned about marketing your new brand? Shopify makes it simple to attract customers through easy-to-run email and social media campaigns, turning casual visitors into loyal fans.

And here's the best part. If you ever feel stuck, Shopify's award-winning customer support is available twenty-four/seven, ready to help whenever you need advice. So stop asking what if and start saying why not? Turn your entrepreneurial dreams into reality with Shopify by your side.

Try Shopify today and bring your business dreams to life. Turn your big business idea into reality with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your one dollar per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com/Tony. Go to Shopify.com/Tony. That's S-H-O-P-I-F-Y dot com slash Tony.

PRE-INTERVIEW CONTINUATION MESSAGE

TONY: And before we dive back into this great conversation with John, I want to take a quick moment to thank you for being here. Thank you. Your support means the world to me, and I truly appreciate you following and listening to The Tony D'Urso Show on your favorite podcast platform, like Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

If you're enjoying this conversation and gaining valuable insights, please hit that follow button and tell some friends about what you've learned. It helps us continue bringing you these incredible guests and very impactful discussions.
And one quicker note—if you're loving the insights you're hearing today, make sure you're getting my bi-monthly Elite Entrepreneur newsletter. It's packed with actionable strategies from the show, highlights from top books and podcasts, and special shout-outs to our community. No cost, no gimmicks. Join us today at TonyDUrso.com. Let's grow together and keep rising. TonyDUrso.com.

And now back to the chat with John from Passion to power play.

INTERVIEW – PART 2 (COVID & THE PICKLEBALL SURGE)
TONY: So, just one moment before we get into tournaments, just on that itself, I see that with Covid, that it was just great timing for something to do outdoors with your family because you weren't allowed—the protocol, at least in the United States, in most of the world, you couldn't have big groups indoors, so you had to go outside. So this seemed like a natural fit that it started growing. And it's fun. It's not very strenuous. It's not very hard work unless you're in the professional leagues, I'm sure. So that part I get.

And meanwhile, at that time you started picking up on this, and I know that you've created a lot to help that surge. It's like a big surge growth. And I'm curious about that. Because you started getting into it. You're very well known internationally. Did that help grow this, the energy on pickleball?

JOHN: Yeah. I mean, I've been—when I get passionate about something, I certainly advertise it on Facebook and Instagram and just try and get people into it, including everybody. And the homeless. I mean, we were delivering food to the homeless during as a volunteer. And I know you're big with that as well, your Southgate Foundation, which is fantastic. And you and I actually donated—somebody when we first met together, remember, Janie, and I helped her out with her Lyme disease to help her get some treatment. And you've always been such a generous person yourself and amazing.

And I have a big heart, and I love people. And I just want to see everybody have a happy, successful life. And so during Covid, my wife was doing Uber Eats, delivering food, and I just saw some shelters giving out food and I said, "Hey, how did the people get this food that can't actually get here to this area?" I said, "I don't know." So I'll deliver it for you. So I just got boxes of food and delivered it out to the homeless that were out there on the streets.

And then the other thing was, then we were thinking about a health and sport resort for the homeless somewhere between outside Las Vegas and Los Angeles, where we could have pickleball courts, multi-sport courts, and rather than having a shelter, a health and sport resort. Because it's an easy game to learn. Tennis is much harder because the overhand, overarm serve and everything else, and it takes a lot longer to learn. And it's very sociable, pickleball.

So I want the whole world to play, basically, whether it's the wealthy, the rich, the famous, the homeless, the kids—everybody can play this game and do it quite affordably, which is really good. The paddles are one hundred to two hundred dollars for a decent paddle. And you've got the balls and a net and the court and away you go. And America's been fantastic, and now Australia as well, and around the world putting on pickleball courts through the cities for free. A lot of them and some clubs as well. The indoor centers obviously have to charge because they're leasing and things like that, but it's really accessible and that's what I love about it as well, where you can go and put a paddle in on a court, meet total strangers and you're exchanging phone numbers at the end. "Let's see, when's the next game?" It's like nothing I've ever seen before.
TONY: And I'm really curious. With Covid now out of the way to a degree, let's just call it—it's not like it was before where you couldn't have groups of six or seven or eight people together. The protocols have changed. Let's put it that way. So with that kind of relaxed now and group meetings are now available, you can go back to indoor sports. What are the challenges to keep it alive? Or is it just still growing on its own merits?

JOHN: Not just still growing. You don't need to keep anything alive with pickleball. You don't really need to convince anybody to play it. It's, once they get into it, they get addicted, as we say, and which is a good addiction to have, unlike some others. And yeah, it's just amazing.

And just getting back to that, putting the paddle in—so you can go to a local court, you can Google search the local courts and you can turn up, put your paddle in the rack in order and just start playing with people. They try and separate a little bit to beginners, intermediate, advanced, challenge courts and stuff like that. But it's okay. It's a sport where, you know, an advanced player can still help out a beginner. And that's the amazing thing that, you know, when you first start playing or when we were always introducing, "Come and play with us," and we'd help them out.

And then since I've been doing a lot of coaching and teaching and clinics and my YouTube channel on pickleball as well, got some really good instruction videos on there, as well as interviews with the pros and pro matches, and some funny things as well. Politically incorrect pickleball with a few takeoffs of Donald Trump and other people. So my mate Mario, we're doing some funny things on there as well to make it entertaining.

And it's just been amazing. It's just—people are saying it's just changing lives. I mean, it's just making them so much happier. I mean, I've always been a pretty happy guy. I got endorphins, dopamine going through, you know, all my life and playing all this sport and everything. And I've just never laughed so much in my life.

And I still love martial arts and tennis, and I see them as incredible sports. And martial arts is an incredible personal development system. It is the best personal development system, and it's very good for your confidence when you're, you know, around strange people and not sure what they're going to do. And you have to go—you know, something like, you know, it gives you more, not being paranoid, but it does give you more confidence around strange people or possibly potentially dangerous people or recognizing that as well. And it's just great exercise, full body workout as well. And it's just amazing for your confidence, self-esteem, lower levels of anxiety, stress release as well.

Now, I see the same in pickleball with that and tennis as well. But tennis, just some people take it a bit more too seriously, you know what I mean? And throwing rackets and stuff. And pickleball, you rarely see them dragging paddles or throwing paddles or getting upset. They'll have a laugh more. That's what I've found anyway. It seemed to be less competitive.

And I like the name pickleball. I'm glad they called it that because it makes it—it doesn't sound so serious. It's a fun game with a funny name, I say. If you call it paddle tennis or paddle ball or paddle tennis or something else, it just—and then we've got these funny names like Ernies and ATPs, and we got Berts and all these funny names that are so, which means running off from somebody and Ernies—we run out of the court and hit a ball before it goes over. You know, things like, as it goes over the net outside the court and there's all these funny names associated with the game, or we get pickled if you beat someone eleven-zero or something, things like that. It's just, it's the pickle. Companies must love it. Well, you know what? But it's just amazing.

INTERVIEW – PART 3 (BUILDING THE PROFESSIONAL STRUCTURE)
TONY: I'm really glad you brought that up. It's been a fun sport, as we've talked about. It's been perfect for get-togethers in a society that was frowning and heavily against people getting together. So that was, what is it called, a lifeline from God on just, hey, you can still hang up, go do this. I get that it's a lot of fun. But now we're talking, John, from just some fun thing people can play anywhere in the world, in your backyard, in a cul-de-sac, wherever you are. But now we're going into talking about something professional, structured. We're talking about systems and tournaments and partnerships and getting sponsors, this whole structure to build and make it something that will stand and stand the test of time and do very well. What steps do you see as most critical in taking it out of the, "Oh, let's just go play in the back street" to now something very professional that people enjoy watching as well as playing?

JOHN: Oh yeah. Well, what I like, it's got it—it's got everything. It's perfect for the beginners that just want to hit around, have a bit of a laugh, and don't play tournaments. For those who want to play leagues and tournaments, it's great. You know, there's two systems out there now—the UTPR and also DUPR for the ranking system. So they get rated, you know, as well. And then other levels when they're going to tournaments. And there's obviously professional tours.

And with World Pickleball Association, I'm heading a bit more towards that. I've just put on about—I haven't counted exactly, but it's somewhere up to thirty-five, forty tournaments and events in the last three years, full on, as well. I was told I was the first person that put on an external city versus city league back in the end of two twenty, just kind of after Covid, they started opening up a bit more and we had three months. I just based it on my tennis competitions back in Australia, where we had home and away teams with six teams, and we played each other twice home and away and then semifinals and finals, and they loved it.

They had two teams for Huntington Beach. We had Newport Beach, South Bay, Los Angeles, Long Beach, and Seal Beach all playing off. I played in as well. It was just absolutely fantastic. And bringing people together for this, they got the big trophy. The winners end up being one team, got the big trophy and some sponsorships as well. A little bit here and there was amazing. And it was just—and for the price of probably one tournament these days, they got to play like three months of pickleball. So I just did it just as a community thing. I wasn't expecting anything out of it, and then, which I really didn't. And then I started, I was playing tournaments and then I was in Oregon at the time, and I started—we put on the first tournament and that was with Jim Price, now a top referee. We did it together and that's how World Pickleball Association formed and it just went on from there.

TONY: We're speaking with John Gill. We're talking about From Passion to Powerplay. And you can find him at TheWorldPickleballAssociation.com. That's TheWorldPickleballAssociation.com. John, you've gone so far, so fast on so many things. It's astounding. And you're an entrepreneur, your basic roots. You're an entrepreneur. And I'm just curious what challenges and hurdles actually did you face when trying to build this out and get traction? You know, as with anything, especially when you're one of the first people to do it, it's not easy. You really have got to almost develop a whole system for it.

JOHN: Oh, definitely. Actually, it's interesting, the word entrepreneur. I see myself as a contributor and owner, and I like to contribute to people's lives. And obviously I have to make a living, make money and things like that. But I've always, ever since I started teaching, I was all about the client and the customer—to teach them tennis, martial arts, and now pickleball to the best of my ability. And at the end of it, I got paid. Oh. That's good. You know what I mean? I wasn't—and even with the tournaments, I mean the time and effort because Covid did start to disappear and they started opening up, you know, again for martial arts. So the time and energy I put into the tournaments, I could have, I don't know, I could have probably tripled or quadrupled the money in martial arts. Right. And still teach that. I'm still teaching a little bit. I'm still doing some stuff with schools and some seminars and things, but generally all the energy I put into it.

My goal was simply to have the world at least trying and playing this game, and then being an Australian at this stage, living in Los Angeles when the Olympic Games is in Brisbane, Australia in twenty thirty-two—lovely, people wouldn't even know where it was in twenty thirty-two. But it is definitely in Brisbane, twenty thirty-two, Australia, which is in Queensland, our state up north. Beautiful place. And that's where the Olympics is. I just thought this game has got to be in the Olympics. It's got to be big. I've got to get this, everyone playing this game, you know, and getting them graded or, you know, getting level through the tournaments I put on. So that's what I did.

And I've just put in, you know, and we all learn from everything we do and other people what they're doing. And I think I've got it down pat now, as far as, you know, how many courts I need for how many matches. And we met so many people now that don't play tournaments that are really good players. And they said, "I'm just sitting and waiting around all day for my matches, and I get a match and I wait two hours." So I don't do that. We do—I do like four courts for every eight pairs, like, you know, for the matches. And they basically just roll. So we finish them as round robin within three hours, possibly a fourth hour if you make the finals—a good problem to have. And that's it. They're in and out. Let's get a sponsor within that—Burger and call it In-N-Out Pickleball. So it's in and out and they're loving it. They're loving the tournaments I'm running.

And as far as keeping it going, keeping the levels right. Because of all my experience, I'm trying to make sure the levels are correct and make sure no one's, you know, going in the wrong level and things like that. But you always do have a winner and you're always going to have a loser, obviously. But you know, so far so good. They've all really, really enjoyed it. And it's just been such a journey. I just kept going at it. I just kept going and going and going.

SPONSOR BREAK – SHOPIFY (REPEAT)
TONY: You know, one of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is that you don't need permission to build something big. John proves that when you combine passion, purpose, and persistence, you can turn even the unlikeliest idea, like backyard pickleball, into a global force on the edge of Olympic history.

And that brings me to this. Because if you've got a dream, if you've got a product, a service, or just an idea bouncing around in your head, every successful entrepreneur I've interviewed on this show started out exactly where you may be right now—with an idea, a dream, and plenty of questions. How do I turn this into something real? How do I build a professional online presence? And how do I actually reach the people who need what I offer?

That's where Shopify comes in. It's the platform built to launch, grow, and scale with zero guesswork and total freedom, just like John did with pickleball. Whether you're selling a digital product, physical goods, or a brand new business model, Shopify gives you everything you need to start, grow, and scale all in one place.

Shopify is the commerce platform powering millions of businesses worldwide, handling ten percent of all e-commerce in the US, including household names like Mattel and Gymshark, as well as countless entrepreneurs just getting started. Exactly like you.

Worried you can't design a website? No problem. Shopify has stunning ready-to-go templates that perfectly match your brand's style. No design experience needed. A little extra help along the way? Shopify has powerful AI tools created specifically for commerce, helping you enhance product images, write compelling product descriptions, and even generate discount codes effortlessly.

Concerned about marketing your new brand? Shopify makes it simple to attract customers through easy-to-run email and social media campaigns, turning casual visitors into loyal fans.

And here's the best part. If you ever feel stuck, Shopify's award-winning customer support is available twenty-four/seven, ready to help whenever you need advice. So stop asking what if and start saying why not? Turn your entrepreneurial dreams into reality with Shopify by your side.

Try Shopify today and bring your business dreams to life. Turn your big business idea into reality with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your one dollar per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com/Tony. Go to Shopify.com/Tony. That's S-H-O-P-I-F-Y dot com slash Tony.

PRE-INTERVIEW CONTINUATION MESSAGE (REPEAT)
TONY: And before we dive back into this great conversation with John, I want to take a quick moment to thank you for being here. Thank you. Your support means the world to me, and I truly appreciate you following and listening to The Tony D'Urso Show on your favorite podcast platform, like Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

If you're enjoying this conversation and gaining valuable insights, please hit that follow button and tell some friends about what you've learned. It helps us continue bringing you these incredible guests and very impactful discussions.

And one quicker note—if you're loving the insights you're hearing today, make sure you're getting my bi-monthly Elite Entrepreneur newsletter. It's packed with actionable strategies from the show, highlights from top books and podcasts, and special shout-outs to our community. No cost, no gimmicks. Join us today at TonyDUrso.com. Let's grow together and keep rising. TonyDUrso.com.

And now back to the chat with John from Passion to Power play.

INTERVIEW – PART 4 (BUILDING TRUST & SCALING)
TONY: Over the years it's something you hear about or maybe not even hear about. And you're to grow it. To grow the whole structure, to grow the worldwide association, you've got to introduce it to people that maybe they're not sports inclined. You've got to get their trust. You've got to get their support. You've got to bring on sponsors. You've got to get people to trust you and corporations to trust you to be at their venue or, for example, at the Olympics. You've got governing bodies involved. How did you develop that trust factor to get these entities and people that have never heard about it to go ahead and trust you and move forward? Is it because of your world, of your martial arts exposure?

JOHN: I think that's helped. If they Google me, they find some pretty cool stuff. I think that's helped. But what I do is, I, you know, I might get approached to somebody or I might have to approach about courts, but I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy. I like the face-to-face stuff, whether I—if I can't meet them in person, I'll do it on Zoom, you know, Google Meet, etc. And I'll make sure I meet people. I've had people come at me and ask if I want to do this and what they want. You know, fifty thousand emails later, I just said, "Let's get to have a chat, mate. Let's get on the phone and get to know each other."

And in that course, they see what I'm doing. Or they can Google me and find out that, you know, I've had some good interviews as well. So Cook TV with Paul Olsen, which a couple of years ago was really good, and some other interviews and Senior Pickleball Tips—Paddy there, we did an interview last year. He loves all my—he loves all my YouTube channel. I did some special videos for the seniors for YouTube.

And I'm just trying to help people get into the game. It's, um, you know, you face challenges in any business you do. At times I've sort of said to myself, "Oh, this is so stressful, which I was just teaching martial arts full time again." You know, there's been those times and I was close to, you know, because it's not easy. You get some very difficult people as well. Most people are nice. People are very good. But you get the odd bad sport, you know, don't like losing or they think they've played someone they know that they don't, you know. Well, they—yeah, they complain about something that wasn't really true or something or that person's higher level. "No, I've actually—I've proved to them, no, that's their level. I can see it on paper or whatever or UTPR, you know, UTPR accepting what the level is."

So yeah, I just—but generally it's been great. Yeah. And, um, you know, except for one or two times, you know, it felt like, "Oh no, I've got to get back to my martial arts full time and make real money or whatever, get back into it and contribute that way." But it's now going to continue into a big journey. And just—I'll put on our friend Linda Hollander. So you're talking about sponsorship—I've never really looked for. We've had a few here and there. Um, but I've never really gone out to get those. Uh, but now it is time to go that next level, because I'm probably the third biggest in the world as far as putting on tournaments. There's PPA, Professional Pickleball Association, APP, Association of Pickleball Players—was called Association of Professional Pickleball Players and then now WPA, me. So I'm probably, I think I'm pretty sure I'm probably the third most as far as number of tournaments, looking at pickleball tournaments and different things. As far as number of tournaments, they run bigger events, right? Um, but now I've just had some—just been doing some pretty good interviews and everything.
And also Linda Hollander, put her on to help me get some big sponsors, because what we're finding is we're getting people playing the lower levels to get their level up, but we're not getting the high level players because they're worried about their UTPR or their DUPR going down or something, unless they do it for money. So we're trying to get some money or prizes as sponsorships so they may get a paddle if they win, or a two hundred dollar paddle or five hundred dollars cash or something. So that's the next step to make it bigger as far as my organization is concerned—World Pickleball Association—to get those higher level players playing in the events. But the lower ones love it because they get the experience and then they can get their level up. And from the experience of playing in tournaments, you become a better player.

Now some of them don't realize that. They go, "Oh, I'll just play rec play the rest of my life." I mean, that's okay. Each to their own. I'm a competitive person. I love testing myself. I just love testing myself and being judged by others or whatever it is. You know, with all the gradings and martial arts, the world champs, judges, I just like putting myself on the line. That's just me. Other people aren't like that. And I'm very ambitious, you know? And I love to do international motivational speaking as well. So I'm very motivated as a person. And I just love to contribute to people's lives. And also for my own life. I just like to compete in these sports. And fortunately, I was blessed with good genes, with hand-eye coordination. And I've worked very hard in all three sports and love them all. And I'll continue to do that as long as I can, and contribute and keep going with helping other people get into these wonderful sports as well.

TONY: John, you're so amazing. I've known you for so long as I've mentioned, and you just always just world class in trying to help people. It's just amazing. And you've really helped blossom this new sport. And I'm just thinking of all these different pieces, the challenges, the opportunities. And I'm thinking, does data, technology and data—do these factors help in growing the World Pickleball Association? Does it help with tournaments or is it just—I'm just kind of wondering if that really can help or not, or has helped in the growth of this?

JOHN: Data, as in, um, you mean social media or as in just data as into the levels?

TONY: Because I don't know the sport and I don't play pickleball, so I don't know all this, so I'm just—you're taking, still again on that in my mindset, that journey from something you play in the backyard to now world stage like football, like basketball, like baseball. So there's a lot of data. There's different levels, there's competitions, there's different technology. Does any of this play a part in growing this sport or have played a part in growing this sport?

JOHN: Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yes. It's just the publicity it's getting alone. There's lots of news programs on it. It's on television all the time. There's, you know, it's getting on to ESPN and Fox Sports. And so it's just grown to this huge level where it's getting very, very big. And now not just the PPA, the MLB—Major League Pickleball—where the pros play in teams similar to the team event I was doing. But mine was actually—and I'll do more of them in the future—city versus city. But in mine, they have to live in the city or play in the city that they represent. Major League Pickleball, they could represent Miami, but live in LA. You know, it's just the way it is. And they get the teams together, I suppose, like, yeah, basketball and football and where they have the teams.

But I, I, and I'm also going to put on a like a where you come from, like a country event. Like obviously there's so many nationalities living in America. I'll have it here. And you'll represent your country. So if you're born Australia, represent Australia, if you're born in America, America, Mexico, whatever it is, England, all these different countries, Canada, of course—all these different countries can represent where you were born.

In Australia, we have a—in rugby league, we have the State of Origin rugby league football. And it's where you grew up playing your football—with its Queensland and New South Wales in Australia on the east coast—were the main ones for rugby leagues. Now everywhere, but they were the main hubs and so they had Queensland versus New South Wales in a best of three series every year, and it's still going to today. It's been fantastic and that's called State of Origin. So it's where you were playing your junior football with the Queensland and New South Wales. That's where you represent.

TONY: And do you see technology helping to grow this like it? And if so, how do you use technology to grow it?
JOHN: Oh, yeah. Social media. Um, the rating systems, as I said, with, uh, you know, the DUPR and UTPR, UTPR pickleball, you know, Universal Technology Rating Pickleball and DUPR is Dynamic Universal Pickleball Rating system. They have the technology that grades you or levels you into the right—through tournaments and everything else and into the right levels, but also at the courts. You know, they have maybe have an advanced sign, beginner, intermediate as well. And now the courts—just put your paddle in and play. You can't do that in any other sport. You can't just roll up to a tennis court or a basketball court, put your tennis racket or basketball in and just wait for a game and I'll play with you. Now it's—it's very—unless people get their own mates together and play, it just doesn't happen. I'm talking about rec play, of course. Leagues and tournaments, competitions—we call them competitions in Australia. You call them leagues here, for example. Yes, of course. You enter that through the system with technology and through the rating systems and tournaments like mine—World Pickleball Tournaments, for example, as a website. They go there and find a WPA tournament and may even allow others on there as well. You know, I don't care. I don't want to take over the world. I just want everyone to play this game. I don't care who they play it with. I even play PPA events myself as a tournament director of WPA. I mean, I just want us all to come together.

SPONSOR BREAK – SHOPIFY (REPEAT)
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PRE-INTERVIEW CONTINUATION MESSAGE (REPEAT)
TONY: And before we dive back into this great conversation with John, I want to take a quick moment to thank you for being here. Thank you. Your support means the world to me, and I truly appreciate you following and listening to The Tony D'Urso Show on your favorite podcast platform, like Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

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And now back to the chat with John from Passion to power play.

INTERVIEW – PART 5 (THE OLYMPIC DREAM)
TONY: And it's the same with Olympic—Olympic dream as well. Talk about the Olympic dream. You've been so vocal about pickleball Olympic ambitions. What's the roadmap to get there, John?

JOHN: Well, they need one governing body, apparently, in every sport. Okay, so there's a couple—all these people fighting over it or whatever. Originally, and now two governing bodies—International Federation of Pickleball—one in India, one in America, have come together and are trying to form the one. Then there's another one. The Global Pickleball Federation formed as well. I formed in three years ago. Exactly. Mid twenty twenty-two. So it's three years. But I'm not—I don't really—I'm not really worried about becoming the official organization or anything. It doesn't worry me at all. There's no ego attached. There's no goals to be—I've got to become the man. You know, I don't care about that. But I am one of them. I am one of the ones putting on more tournaments than some of the others. So and Olympics is a tournament, so I'll be happy to help maybe with it, but I don't really, you know, care if I become the official governing body or anything like that.

And, uh, you know, I'm, you know, at this stage I haven't even really thought about it, but I know there's other bodies that are trying to do something together, and I'm willing to support them. That's fine. I'm happy. I don't care. I was willing to support them and help them put on tournaments or something. I don't really mind. I don't like this us and them thing. You know, I'm very—it takes a—you need a team. You can't do everything yourself. You need a team to—I am forming a pretty good team now, but yeah, a lot of it with my wife Victoria, I and friends and we do volunteers and we give them free entries to help out and we're forming a pretty good team, which is good. But you know, it's got to be a pretty big team if I'm going to put on, you know, like twenty court events or thirty courts. That's huge. And that's what PPA and APP do. And I'm not there yet. I'm looking at possibly getting there in Australia and America, and then Asia.

But I'm not—I'm not worried about it. Like, you know, I'm not really thinking I have to do it, but I just want to do it more to contribute and give people more opportunities. And there were the systems I'm doing in my tournaments now, where there's no waiting time or very little waiting time between matches. I think that's created a pretty good get in for people. And I, they—we've been really getting some ever since I've really hammered that. And I learned from other tournaments where I've had to wait so long between matches, you have to warm up again and you're exhausted. And, you know, I've learned a lot from that, that system. It costs you more on court and a whole bunch of other stuff and locking courts out to make sure that, you know, play doesn't—something come on afterwards and you're middle of a final or something and—that's fine. It's just the way it is. Uh, and get, you know, the refs in and things like that and make it more professional. So yeah, I am leading towards that. That's why I've just engaged with Linda Hollander for this, who's fantastic at getting sponsorships. So that is the next step.
Uh, for me, hopefully if it doesn't work out, that's fine. No problem. Not worried. I'll just keep tapping away with smaller tournaments. I'm not really that concerned. If I have to make it bigger, it's more of a contributing, you know. Um, and just helping as much as I can.

INTERVIEW – PART 6 (SCALING & ACCESSIBILITY)

TONY: You may have answered my point. I'm thinking of, you know, I'm tracking with you, and I'm thinking of this—something to me, very new a decade ago. Now it's all over. There's a pickleball court or company or whatever they're called, not very far from me. And I see it driving around town. Pickleball, come join us. You know, it's grown cool. And I'm looking at the challenge here of taking something and scaling it. We're just talking about scaling. You've got some other associations doing twenty, thirty court tournaments. You're not quite there but you're starting to. And I'm thinking of in this scale and accessibility—how it's all working for you. How do you grow a sport globally while keeping it accessible to everybody and bringing on new players? I mean, usually it's like one or the other, but here you've got to do both.

JOHN: So there's tennis clubs in America, Australia and around the world. So there's—not that that's—I think that's the next stage for pickleball. It's happening. There are clubs, there are clubs and there's rec play for free, which is great at local—you know, every city now in America finally, our tax dollars are going somewhere and they're putting these courts in for free. You know, they get a bit full sometimes. Um, and people rather pay, you know, fifty dollars a month or one hundred dollars a month to two hundred dollars a month to actually join a club and have more courts. And that is happening. Lost Cove down there in Fountain Valley, a very big—I was a member there for a while. Just Newport Beach, I was a member there for a while. I don't have time now to go regularly anymore because I'm traveling so much. But I've always been a member of these clubs before and I enjoyed them. Seal Beach is a great one. They're actually quite reasonable, you know, ten dollars a casual visit and things like that. So they—they're putting more courts in and they have a monthly fee as well.

So yeah. And you have it as a club like the tennis clubs or—a lot of tennis clubs are coming, half pickleball, half tennis or whatever, and mixing it in that way. And then you can have internal leagues, external tournaments and leagues like mine, like APP or PPA, etc., etc. So I even give advertising to other people. That's how generous us Australians are, Tony. It's not all about WPA, right? It's about everybody. I'm Switzerland, mate. I am neutral. I'm in the middle. I don't take sides and that's it. I'm in the middle. Well, people say, come—that's it. I'm friendly. You know, I look at things—I don't take sides, mate.

And the same with like martial arts. "My style is better than yours" kind of thing or this style. But it's not that. It's just we're all just doing martial arts, and you can just call it that, you know, it's just—it's so important that we all come together as a world. And I think these sports, like pickleball, can do that in a world where, you know, there's some problems. And even now, you know, I don't want to get political, but it's such a no-brainer that people—I've been around the world. I've been all over the US. I see people all over. I've interviewed millionaires, billionaires. I've run into many walks of life. You know, I was a paper boy seven days a week in Chicago. I know what it's like, tough. And let me tell you, they had some tough winters there.
People are people. And generally they're very nice. They're caring. They're good. People naturally are good natured. Most of them are very, very good and very, very kind. I've run into a lot of good people. I thank God for that. And it would be very good to kind of bring that, you know, bring more love and kindness to others.

TONY: But, you know, I'm not trying to change the focus of the show. We're entrepreneurs or business people here, and we're listening to Tony and John Gill speaking, and we're thinking, what can I use here to grow my business? Now, everyone, you know, if you have a business, you know, if you're doing a business, you've had a great idea, you're trying to get somewhere. And I hope that some of this passion comes through to the audience because as you mentioned—very, you spoke about it very, very briefly. But in that second or two you mentioned it, I read a whole lot where sometimes when it gets tough, you didn't say it, but you think about throwing in the towel. It crosses your mind like you think about leaving it, giving up. But you didn't and you didn't. You didn't stay focused on that. And I think what you were silent about is the biggest takeaway for me is just, you know, because you only fail when you stop. If you don't stop, you never fail, John. And I think for me, that's my takeaway. If, as an audience member listening to this show, you think there's anything else that we should keep as the big vision here, despite the little hurdles that might be happening?

JOHN: Oh, yeah. Like I never give up. If I have a passion on something, I'll keep going for it. It's like helping the homeless, just like you do with the Southgate Foundation. So shout out to that as well. And I formed SAFE Foundation for prevention of violence and homelessness.

OUTRO
TONY: And once again, this is John Gill speaking about From Passion to Powerplay. He's so passionate about everything he's involved in. Check him out at TheWorldPickleballAssociation.com. John, I've known you for about a decade now. You're always very passionate and you're very upfront where you are, who you are and what you're doing. And I just want to say continue on because you're a very, very good person. You are a role model for us. So thank you.

JOHN: Same to you, mate. I appreciate your podcast and your shows over the years have been fantastic, and I really recommend it to everybody to keep watching your show. You learn so much from your shows interviewing these people, and we appreciate your support and your contribution to everything as well. It's been amazing.

TONY: Thank you so much, John. I really appreciate you. You're a good man. You gave us such good advice. I just want to say thank you again. And to the audience here, hey, if you liked this, share this with your friends. Tell them about John Gill and what the World Pickleball Association has done, what he's been through, what he's accomplished. He just continues to do more and more and more. He just continues to double and grow and treble in his accomplishments. It's absolutely inspiring. I highly recommend you find out more about John and follow him.

And speaking of that, wherever you're getting this, please follow the show. It helps to bring more amazing guests to you. All right, let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success. Thanks. Remember, just take action. Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. So good seeds, do good deeds, and I'll see you on the next episode.